Episode 82

What Determines Your Self-Worth?

Looking at the relationship between our finances and our self-worth

Where does self-worth come from and how can we link this to our financial plan? Whilst The Financial Wellbeing Podcast is not about psychology, the guys are exploring the relationship between self-worth and your money with personal examples and some great advice from the Dalai Lama. A poignant episode for you to consider how you plan your financial wellbeing.

Welcomes & Introductions

Featuring a wellbeing tip from Chris Budd – play music with your kids

What is todays podcast all about?

Taking a look at what is meant by self-worth and the relationship it has with our finances and net worth.

The No Shizzle Sherlock Test 🔎

Every episode they guys will take a look at a questionable financial tip – will it be insightful and meaningful advice, or from the land of the bleeding obvious!

Given a 10% chance of a 100x pay off. You should take that bet every time – Jeff Bezos

Often the advice you hear from a wealthy investor ignores the circumstances of the person making the investment, so Know thyself and be aware


Featuring Producer Tommo’s reputation and a tip from Dan Tailor with his brilliant way of making the most of clubbing when on holiday

Editor Tammy’s tip – scoop out those last bits of cosmetics – works for wine too!

Todays Topic How does self-worth link to your money and finances?

  • If self-worth comes from others, it can be taken away
  • The feeling of being valued, just for being you
  • Building confidence and grow your belief in yourself
  • Give others the chance to succeed to increase their self worth
  • Pride, internal/external/blurred, especially when it comes to family

Chris Budd’s dad and his pride: Was external, through stuff and was lost when he went bankrupt

David’s outward bound experience: despite having all the kit fellow guy did not have the belief he could get through the experience

Producer Tommo’s conversations: Far more exciting to say you have 4 properties rather than the same money in a pension pot!

What can bring you wellbeing?

  • Episode 42 & Episode 46 with Tim Kasser
  • Money as the objective contradicts wellbeing
  • Money brings short term wellbeing that can be taken away

So how do we find internal self-worth?

Compassion, kindness to others and being warm hearted Dalai Lama

When people reach financial independence they –

  • travel
  • find they have too much
  • spend money to help others

Work our how much you need now so you can help others sooner

Conclusions from the guys

Looking at our self worth and the way it makes us feel is really going to effect the judgements we make about how we plan for our future and financial wellbeing



If you would like to purchase a copy of The Financial Wellbeing Book please click on this link to visit Penny Brohn UK shop



Do you have any financial wellbeing questions you would like us to answer? Or do you have a #tightasstommo money saving tip you would like to share with our listeners?

If so, let us know by going to Twitter @Finwellbeing or email – enquiries@ovationfinance.co.uk



Transcribe of the Podcast Script:

David 0:15 Hello everybody and welcome to another one in our long running series of financial wellbeing podcasts. My name is David Lloyd. I’m the sap that doesn’t really know anything about money and asks all the naive questions, but fortunately, I have two people with me here today who know all of the answers. The first one is the guy that wrote the financial wellbeing book on which this series of podcasts is based, Chris Budd who are you?

Chris 0:38 You just said who I am so I guess thats it really? What else am I? Do you know what, I think this week I’ll say I’m a musician. I always remember somebody calling me musician, what are you talking about? Well you play guitar. Yeah. Then you’re a musician! But I had one of my best wellbeing moments of my life. Because a band called BLT, a covers band locally. I think probably David, you’ve seen them even, seen them at my wife’s birthday. They were short a drummer and my son’s a really really good drummer. So they asked him if he would drum. But the gig was in Salcombe which about two and a half hour drive away. So they realised to get him to drum, they were going to need to ask me to play guitar as well. So they did and so we had a little adventure going down to the West Country, further down to the West Country playing a gig, with my son on drums, me on guitar and the rest of the band and it was just the most fun. It was brilliant. So yeah, that’s a wellbeing tip for me. Do things like music with your kids? Absolutely brilliant.

Chris 1:01 Ah that’s lovely. Tom Morris. I think your kids are a little bit young to be drumming in bands, aren’t they?

Producer Tommo 1:40 Unless its maracas or shakers that they just sort of move around randomly,move around and bang drums and pans and pots and all that sort of things. Yeah not quite at that level. But but still plenty of of joy, but just in different ways. I’m going to do my introduction that I do, which is my shameless plug of the organisations that I want to promote if that’s alright with you David.

David 2:00 Go ahead.

Producer Tommo 2:01 Well, there’s Ovation Finance. I’m the director and financial planner over there. Come and have a chat if you want to talk about more of the things that that we talked about in this podcast and maybe even your own financial planning needs. Also Initiative for Financial Wellbeing is something myself and Chris are directors at and if you’re in the financial services profession, go check it out. Got great membership, lots of discussions around the idea of financial wellbeing and how we implement it. It’s been had, so yeah, go and check those two organisations out.

David 2:40 Excellent. Thanks very much. Chris. What are we talking about today?

Chris 2:43 Today, David, we are going to look at what is meant by self worth, and what might be the relationship between our self worth and ounet worth.

David 2:53 I have heard this expression before have I not?

Producer Tommo 2:56 You have David, it was an expression we first heard from Mark Bristow, a money coach, who we heard Chris interview in podcast episode 60.

David 3:06 Yes, he’s the he’s the guy who told that amazing story about how being lost in a department store led to him having a bad relationship with money. Is that right?

Chris 3:16 That’s the one that’s one. Although I should just stress being lost in a department store when he was a small child not recently.

David 3:23 Not like Father Ted?

Chris 3:27 Thats a blast in the past. I also came across this concept of internal and external self worth and a book I read recently that I want to tell you about so I thought it’d be interesting to explore this idea of self worth and little

David 3:38 I look forward to this joint exploration but before we do that, the first of our two regular features. The first one being No Shizzle Sherlock in which we consider words of wisdom from a financial or investment guru and wonder whether this is indeed insightful and meaningful advice, or whether it’s coming from the land of the bleep the obvious. So Chris, what’s today’s motivational phrase that you have for us today?

Chris 4:04 This guy, I’m looking forward to the different ways you’re gonna say that every episode David. This comes from the world’s richest man, at the time of writing he was anyway. So we better tread carefully because it’s Jeff Bezos and he’s done all right, from himself hasnt he? So who are we to criticise. His investment tip is – given a 10% chance of a 100 times pay off. You should take that bet every time.

David 4:34 Okay, so 10% Chance 100% Or I’m not as you know, the most mathematically minded person I think I need a moment to think about that one. So Tommo you’re my financial advisor helped me out here.

Producer Tommo 4:47 Now I try my best, scratch my head a little bit. Well, first of all, as usual, with these investments, it depends on your situation. Let’s say you have £1000 to invest. And that’s the only spare money you have. You put the whole £1000 into a high risk investment, where there is a 90% chance you will lose your money. Then no, that’s terrible advice. If however, like Jeff, you have loads of money and can make a series of investments that’s different. So let’s say you have £10,000 and you want to make 10 investments of £1000, there’s a 10% chance of success or nine of your investments will fail. One will increase by 100 times two will go up go up to £100,000. So, yeah, be very careful. Make sure you’ve got some money to

David 5:47 Not be quite as rich as Jeff Bezos. I’m not sure I like those odds if I’m honest. So what is that tenth investment doesn’t work either?

Producer Tommo 5:57 Well exactly. It’s it doesn’t work. Then you’re left with nothing. So therefore you need to be able to afford to lose everything, or everything you’ve invested, which Jeff Bezos can but yeah, yeah.

David 6:13 Yeah. So it’s not so much of a No Shizzle Sherlock. It’s more about well, that’s fine. If you could afford to lose everything.

Producer Tommo 6:19 Well, exactly. Like so much of the advice you hear from wealthy investors ignores the circumstances and the person making the investment. There is no doubt the more you diversify your investment, you’re going to have winners and losers. Certainly, I think the type of investing he’s talking about very speculative investing, where it can really blow up well, but it’s in diversification and being able to afford to see that money drop in value or in that high risk environment. Go completely.

David 6:49 Well, we talked a lot on this podcast about Know Thyself, this is a really great example of that. Be aware of what it is you’re taking on.

Chris 6:57 And I’m just gonna just gonna wade in slightly as well, which I’m going to be honest with you that sort of investment tip from someone like this from Bezos really annoys me because he has made obviously stupid amounts of money. There’s hundreds of 1000s if not millions of people that took the same level of risk that he did that didn’t make that lots of money. So well done Jeff, good on you. But don’t go telling everybody how to do what you do. If you got a bit lucky, work hard, etc. That’s not a good tip for me.

David 7:24 Excellent. Okay, that’s what that one too bad. Let’s move on to the next one. #TightAssTommo. Every so often, I need to remind you the providence of this particular feature, it all started when Tom and a former colleague Ian and Chris all went out to lunch Tommo said don’t worry, guys, this one’s on me I’ll pay and steered them towards a particular item on the menu. As it turned out, he had a voucher for that, which meant he got it for free. Never been any question whatsoever, that this wasn’t a great lunch. But it also is a prime example of why this man is somebody who needs to be listened to when it comes to being. But before we come on to him, Chris, what have you got for us?

Chris 8:05 Well, the thing about this #tightasstommo is that Tommo has a reputation far and wide for our industry. And if you’re going to confrences, and I’ve seen it happen, you say Hi, I’m Tom Morris. Oh, your #tightasstommo, Its great I love it. And so some of our friends are happy to give us tips whenever they see when they see us a one is from a financial financial advisor called Dan Taylor. And he says that he and a mate used to go to Ibiza every year, which obviously to go clubbing. Before going they would email all the top clubs saying they were journalists reviewing the summer club scene they will include a link to that website, which they just kind of made up. Always was just a page with an under maintenance message. It would usually be enough to get them into all the club free of charge and on the guest list as well.

David 8:55 That is absolute genius.

Producer Tommo 8:59 I must confess I know Dan and I had heard this story before and it gets me every time. I just have an image that was like Kevin and Perry go large. So I got a great tip.

David 9:14 Tommo can you top that?

Producer Tommo 9:18 Okay, no, I this one. This one is from the real producer the superstar behind the scenes. Tammy. She she’s she’s came up with a few but I’m gonna pick one. I’m gonna pick one for the ladies today. Or men or you know, if you wear makeup its fine. To always cut off the top of cosmetic tubes. When you think you’re at the end of the product. There will be a tonne less. You can still scoop out.

David 9:49 Well, I just like to amplify on that. I think that’s great and the same applies for wine boxes. If you box in a wide box, and you’re pressing the top of the tap, and then you realise it’s all gone. Cut cut the corner of the wire box is always another glass of wine in there.

Producer Tommo 10:06 Is that like you know when you take the crisp packet at the end to get all the crumbs out? And this can work to have so many – toothpaste toothpaste is really struggling to get the last bit cut it open lots of scraped your your toothbrush into the toothpaste opened up tube Yeah, there you go. Tammy great work

Chris 10:25 We must have on at some point in time squeezed together the last bits of soap to make one new bar

David 10:32 And indeed there’s another tip that I can’t even share with you on this podcast of our paths so you’ve got afterwards

Chris 10:38 Oh no what I know now

David 10:40 That I used that I used to do as a younger man no it’s illegal. So moving swiftly on Chris, why don’t you introduce our subject for today?

Chris 10:51 Okay, so I’d like to have a chat about self worth.

David 10:56 Okay, now on the face of it that doesn’t sound like it’s especially linked with money does self worth come from things like believing in yourself and getting appreciation from other people?

Chris 11:07 Well, that’s kind of the point. They are of course, indeed sources of self worth. But if your sense of self worth comes mainly from others then it can be taken away. Now, I got this from the most amazing book I’ve ever read. There’s two books I would say have changed. My life. One is called The Long Walk by Slavoumir Rawicz, which I read in my 20s and led me to leave a particularly depressing job and start my own business. The other one I’ve just read recently, which is by the Dalai Lama and Archbishop Desmond Tutu, and it’s kind of not quite transcript but it’s all about the conversation that the two of them had for a week about what is joy called The Book of Joy. Absolutely fantastic and just completely knocked me for six in a number of different ways. One of the things the Dalai Lama talks about in that book is that self worth comes from internal and external sources. So an example of an internal source of self worth might be how well we do things that we deemed to be valuable. It comes from having a role to play in life, one that has a connection to others and is again aligned with your own values. It’s about being valued feeling valued. Just for being you

David 12:17 Great, so its about building confidence in a way, isn’t it. Now I’m thinking of my time cricket coaching, which I still do a bit of, but not so much these days. You see kids who come along to their first practice session, unconfident aren’t sure of themselves, perhaps standing to the side of it, you get the chance to do something like just catch a ball, whatever. And they realise that actually, they can do something they didn’t know that they can do, you can almost see them grow in stature and start to get more confident in their interaction with their mates and actually just to develop a little bit further. An amazing thing happened to me last week. I part of a WhatsApp group of Bristol City football supporters. And all of a sudden, this guy just suddenly popped up. David Lloyd, you’re a leg. And I went, Oh, what’s this all about? Now, back in the early 1990s, the previous club that I used to belong to I used to do some coaching with their kids there. And he said, I was fielding one day at near the boundary, and you said now you’re setting in the wrong place. You need to move 20 yards further in. And so I did and the very next ball, the guy hit the ball to me and I caught it. My teammates thought I was fantastic. And he never forgotten that, I didn’t remember it at all. But obviously, there was something about the advice that I gave him that it still meant an awful lot to him that it also really increased his self worth and his belief in himself. So so that is a really, really good little thing.

Chris 13:42 What a lovely example and it’s a really important aspect of self worth, David making sure that you give people the chance to succeed. So their self worth can increase. I think it’s worth us thinking about all different areas of life, particularly to have children. It’s very easy to tell them what not to do. But it’s also really important to say well done when they’ve done something good. I remember one tip some to give about little kids, when they’re making a lot of mess in the bathroom. Rather than saying, Stop making a mess. You say, How could you keep the water in the bath and it’s just a different way of putting the same thing that is more likely to give them a chance to succeed to do something well, rather than a chance to fail. So it’s a great tip for how to increase your sense of self worth and others for giving them opportunities to succeed. I’m sure we all know people who have low self esteem and yet we think that they’re awesome. So I’d like to quote a lyric from the most fabulous local band except they are not local, international now but it came from Bristol punk band called Idols who are very straight talking on this particular point and there’s a fantastic line from verse on one of their songs, which is “If someone talked to you the way that you do to you, I’d put their teeth through, love yourself.

David 15:00 Loving yourself is very important. We are not of course advocating violence. We’re not suggesting that you put anybody to teeth through particularly your own. But I think that’s very, very, very true. That that that feeling of self worth and and how it makes us feel and I’m looking forward very much as to how you’re going to take that essentially strong psychological point. And relate it to money, Chris?

Chris 15:24 Yeah, it’s not a psychology podcast. We’re not putting ourselves out as counsellors. But what really got me onto this was this, this book, and particularly a couple of passages from the Dalai Lama, because we’re talking about internal sources of self worth. But this isn’t the only source of self worth. It also comes from external sources. It could be applause or recognition, or status, or wealth. It can be from your job and social media connections physical appearance passing exams, how fast you ride a bike how many friends you have, these are all external sources of self worth.

David 15:58 Yeah, so I get that they’re all examples of external sources, but but it would give one a feeling of pride. I guess to pass an exam. It feels good to wear nice clothes, drive a nice car.

Chris 16:09 It does but that’s just an example of the car. The question is whether the pride comes from within from just enjoying the nice car for its own sake, or from without because you like people seeing you in that car. And this is really important because this is a key point Dalai Lama makes because internal sources of pride can’t be taken away external sources however, can.

Producer Tommo 16:35 I’m just trying to process this because it one area of pride. I was having a conversation recently with some friends for me. Certainly kicked it when I became a father is this ability to provide for my family, and what we have in the security, etc. And I get a lot of pride from that. And is that internal or external. Is it blurred? Because I would say that that’s what drives a lot of what I do and I think a lot of parents would probably appreciate the comment I’m making.

Chris 17:05 I would say it’s very much internal. It can’t be taken away, can it somebody can’t come along and take it away from you. That stuff’s pride that you have. So yes, very much. That’s an internal source of pride. Absolutely. I want to illustrate that by way of a story about my father. I just was gonna go halfway through not at the beginning. So i’d like to illustrate this point by way of a story about my father. Now my dad came from very humble beginnings. His father was a road sweeper and he did pretty well in life. And he made a bit of money. Had a business and he used that money to buy a lot of the trappings that you might think of. So for example, I remember we were the only kids on our block with a SodaStream which was quite a big deal at the time. He also got himself a Jaguar car secondhand, but still he had a Jag. And a Bang & Olufsen stereo and if I’m honest he probably showed off a little bit. But pride Now unfortunately, in the early 90s recession hit and he went bankrupt. He lost everything, house, car, SodaStream literally everything. And he was never the same man. Again. And when I read this from the dialogue in this book, it hit me absolutely like hammer, because I realised what had happened to my dad. That he had lost his external pride. His sense of self worth was external, not internal, and therefore it could be taken away. And so when I read that it just suddenly helped me understand my father.

David 18:40 I can see that really moved you Chris. And I think clearly as we get older, I think we come to a different understandings of how our dad tick, I certainly never really appreciated by dad until I became a dad myself because I’m 72 Then but I appreciated all the sacrifices that that he perhaps made for me. But I think the essential point we make there is absolutely right. We can buy all the possessions that we like, I’m reminded of a story Okay, so I did like an outward bound course and about 30 years ago, actually. And it was a mixture of adventure. So we did rock climbing and potholing and rough building, but built into the course there were also moments of self reflection as well and it was a really interesting, fantastic we get one of the guys on the course. I can’t remember his name, but I wouldn’t share it with you. Anyway. One of the things we had to do when we got there was in north Wales, we drove all the way up to Snowdonia, and we were given some ideas about what we were expected to do but but actually not that much. So we got there. We arrived there at 10 o’clock at night thinking okay, we’re going to get a bed now and then the first thing they said is right you’re gonna go on a night walk now. You know, are you just gonna walk in the dark and the will be signposts along the way you will, don’t worry about get lost. There’s a moment where it gets very dark and will be a road for you to follow. And you’re going to take it in terms with like 10 minute gaps between you and you’re going to be on your own and while you’re on this walk, you’re going to experience certain things, you’re going to meet certain people and certain things happen to you. So we go in literally to the dark and into the unknown. We all do lots to see who is going to go first and who is going to go last and I was laughed. I was the last person to go and I’m with this other guy. Okay. So we’re waiting to go now. He’d come along with all of the kit in you that there’s going to be Outward Bound stuff. So he bought ropes, he brought a helmet he brought a head torch. He brought crampons he brought absolutely everything that he thought he might need for this weekend. But what he hadn’t bought with any sense of inner strength or belief so he could do this. So while we’re waiting for me to go and you know and obviously waiting for him to go cuz he was going before that, you know, we’re having a chat and I realised that he was absolutely terrified about what he was going to have to do because he was just going to have to go into the unknown, despite the fact that you bought all the kit and the amount of torches and ice axes add. They were all external things. And what he didn’t have inside himself was the belief in himself, that everything was going to be all right and that for me, was a very striking thing. I brought nothing with me at all to kind of walk out and that was about it. However, I’m a bit of a cocky side, so I just thought I’m gonna be alright. So I had my internal belief that things were gonna get me through that. He didn’t have that. I mean, he did by the end of the weekend actually really interesting so yeah, so that’s why the whole story about the difference between external trappings and actually, internal self worth and really believing in yourself.

Producer Tommo 21:48 Wow, how can you be those two stories? Thanks, Chris, for sharing that. Obviously knowing known you for a number of years and I know that that would have been difficult to do so thank you. External trappings if I try and relate it to financial for a moment I often have conversations with clients. Certainly clients who come to us maybe have come into some money or think about retirement and it’s this idea of there’s nothing wrong necessarily with this strategy, but just some of the motivations behind it is this idea that oh, yeah, I think I’ll want to buy I want to buy to let property I want to buy to let portfolio and sometimes when you drill down, I’ve got this theory that some of it is down to the fact that there is this external trappings of self worth to say to somebody Yeah, I own four or five properties far more exciting than saying yeah, I have exactly the same value but it just so happens to be in a pension fund. And and I think sometimes it drives people’s financial decisions, and they might absolutely despise being being landlords and all the hassle that comes with it. It works for some i’m not suggesting for one moment if you have a buy to let portfolio of any description its a bad thing. I’m not. Just for some people is this idea to be able to say, Yeah, I’ve got some properties. Far more exciting than, Yeah, I’m okay. I’m set up. I’ve got a pension fund. So maybe there’s something there with a financial spin to it.

Chris 23:17 Also thinking of another guy I know who many years ago his business was about to go bankrupt. And I popped round for coffee, just to give them some support, really, and there was a Ferrari in the driveway. And I kind of said to him, was it something just bought a Ferrari have you because I knew that his business was literally just, he was about to close it down. And he just hired it for the weekend because he was going through a very difficult thing of everybody was going to be saying that his business went back to go Boston, his pride, His external pride was hurt and he wants to be seen driving the Ferrari for weekend. I don’t think that’s going to bring him a great deal of well being because this is what this is all about. Okay, we know from the podcast we’ve heard before Professor Tim Cassa,

Producer Tommo 24:01 Episodes 42 & 46

Chris 24:04 Thank you Tommo, that if you see money as the objective that this is in contradiction with the sorts of values that contribute to happiness. And it perfectly chimes with this notion of internal and external self worth that if you get yourself worth from money and what it brings that it may well give you short term or temporary joy, but it can be taken away from you so won’t necessarily last.

David 24:27 Okay, just hang on there one second in case you think you’re done, Mr. Budd now, because I’m a bit confused. You just told us external self worth is transitory, although accurately the Dalai Lama has told us this. But he’s also told us that internal self worth is long lasting and contributes to happiness. I think we’ve understood that now. But how do we find so I understand external self worth hire a Ferrari for the weekend. How do we find internal self worth?

Chris 24:56 Well, according to the Dalai Lama, the secret is very simple. compassion, kindness to others, warm heartedness.

David 25:04 That’s it.

Chris 25:05 Yeah.

Producer Tommo 25:08 For my own experiences and financial planet for, yeah, getting on for quite a few years now. And from speaking to many other financial planners with a combined experience of helping 100s, if not 1000s of clients, actually, obviously, that people can reach some sorts of financial independence do one of two main things: they do some travelling and they do something to help other people. They also very often end up with more money than they thought they needed. So what would be great is if people could spend a bit more time as they go through life, and work out what makes them happy, including helping other people now and therefore, how much money they actually need is really important because it could find that they can help people now, rather than waiting and waiting and waiting.

David 26:05 So we’ve come back rather nicely, actually. So what are the well worn and I make no apologies for this well worn theme of this podcast, which is, you know, that’s what financial wellbeing planning is all about. But I think what we’ve also realised that clearly, underneath all of this, we’ve really touched on it today, I think in quite a moving way. You know, when we look at our feelings of self worth, and the way it makes us feel, then that really is going to affect some of the judgments we make, about how we help to plan not only our financial wellbeing but our financial future.

Producer Tommo 26:39 Exactly, David as always summarised brilliantly

David 26:42 Excellent. Well, listen, this has been a really enjoyable podcast is that the right word? And it’s certainly been very moving and very touching. Thanks to both of you for sharing. Thanks, Chris, for that lovely story about your dad bless him. And I hope that you’ve all taken something away from this. I hope you’ll find your own way of finding your inner self worth. And once you’ve done that, I hope you’ll join us for another one in our series of financial wellbeing.

Do you have any financial wellbeing questions you would like us to answer? Or do you have a #tightasstommo money saving tip you would like to share with our listeners?

If so, let us know by going to Twitter @Finwellbeing or email – contact@financialwell-being.co.uk

If you would like to purchase a copy of The Financial Wellbeing Book please click on this link to visit Penny Brohn UK shop


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