Episode 109

Reclaiming Philanthropy with Emma Beeston

How can everyone can approach philanthropy no matter their contribution?

Join us for a candid discussion around reclaiming philanthropy with Emma Beeston. We dissect the reclaiming of philanthropy as a social duty, no matter the size of the contribution. Whether your a seasoned giver or just starting the conversation, this episode offers practical advice and a fresh perspective on the power of giving for you wellbeing.


Welcomes & Introductions

Bear with us and the record delivery interruption!

Link to Episode 64 – The Financial Wellbeing Junkie

Link to join the IFW

Want to work with Producer Tommo and a like minded team? Come and have a chat with Ovation Finance


What’s on Today’s Podcast?

An interview with Emma Beeston exploring reclaiming philanthropy. It’s a topic many don’t like to talk about, but how can you give to maximise wellbeing?


Tight Ass Tommo

Episode recorded during Masters Golf – so a timely golf tip from Producer Tommo.

Always loosing your golf balls? Try www.lakeballs.com for cheap replacements.


Reclaiming Philanthropy – Interview with Emma Beeston

What do we mean by philanthropy?

What do we mean by reclaiming philanthropy?

The 5 T’s –

  • Treasure
  • Time
  • Talent
  • Testimonial
  • Ties

How to structure giving to maximise wellbeing?

Different ways of giving?

What happens when giving does not align with values?

Giving in ways that can cause problems for the charities

Focus on one area or spread money around?

The charities perspective

The head or the heart approach

Advisors starting the conversations


Conclusion from the Guys

Philanthropy as a social duty and an important contribution to society

Link to 500 Reasons – making a small amount of money go further with a bigger group

Key takeaway; clients probably want to talk about philanthropy, but may not want to be the first to mention it.

Reclaiming philanthropy – it’s not about the big boys, it’s relative and something everyone can approach



Emma Beeston is a philanthropy advisor who facilitates conversations with philanthropists, families and foundations on creating and implementing giving plans.

Emma’s book (with co-author Beth Breeze) Advising Philanthropists: Principles and Practice is available here.

Want to work with Emma and bring her into the chat with clients? Take a look at her website for further information and contact details here.


Episode Transcribe:

> David Lloyd: Well, hello again, everybody, and, welcome to another one in our long running series of financial wellbeing podcasts. My name is David Lloyd. I’m an actor, a writer, a broadcaster, a, man about town or a man about village, in fact, in my case.

Many years ago, my friend Chris Budd got in touch with me and said, how do you fancy doing a podcast about financial well being? I said, financial well being? What’s that? And so this podcast was born. And, as indeed, well, actually, no, Chris Budd wasn’t born then. He’d been around for quite a while, but he was born into this podcast. Chris, tell us about yourself.

> Chris Budd: I was born, David, in the finest year for music, 1967, the year of Sergeant Pepper and the Velvet Underground. And Nico, how can you top that for a year for music?

> David Lloyd: It’s difficult. our other, contributor, Tom Morris, is looking blankly. no, his bell. Somebody’s bell is ringing.

>> Producer Tommo: Somebody’s bells ringing.

>> Chris Budd: Let me just quickly get that. Sorry.

>> David Lloyd: Listeners will now be thinking, hang on a minute, was there a strange gap there in that interview? and in fact it was because Chris Bud’s doorbell rang. And, Chris, tell us about what you were having delivered there.

>> Chris Budd: well, David, I was having delivered about 15 vinyl albums. And actually there’s a financial well being aspect to this. Right, bear with me, bear with me. This is tenuous, because spending when you can’t afford things is not a good thing. And I have this phrase called financial well being. Junkies where we buy stuff, retail therapy, we buy stuff to make ourselves feel better.

And that’s generally not a very well advised thing to do because you spend money that you can’t afford and people get into debt and it’s, you know, it’s a. It’s a big deal. It’s an important thing in my case. I’m not a wealthy guy, but I can afford to buy some records. So I have a bit of an addictive habit and I’m allowing myself that addictive habit of buying records because I love it.

>> Producer Tommo: Do you know when that. When that doorbell went, I don’t know if this is a reference. This is just a really Bristolian reference we all know about. But remember that lady who was asked? It was like 2017.

>> Emma Beeston: Well, did you know there’s going to.

>> Producer Tommo: Be another general election? And she. Oh, not another one. It’s a great gif as well. So that’s what automatically pops into my mind when that doorbell rings.

>> Chris Budd: I’ve said this before, but I’ll say it again. I’ve got, I’ve got so many cds and records and, all burnt onto a hard drive, and I’ve done some downloading as well. And if you play the first track on my hard drive, and you play every track thereafter until the whole hard drive is played 24 hours a day, without gap, it would take 137 years to play everything on my hard drive. And I’ve just had another 15 hours delivered. Although, to be fair, most of those I’ll be selling.

>> David Lloyd: It’s good for everybody to have a hobby.

Tom Morris: Another disembodied voice joins the podcast to discuss financial wellbeing

Now, you will have heard another disembodied voice that suddenly chipped into that conversation before we even had a chance to introduce him. So, disembodied voice. Tell us about yourself, disembodied voice.

>> Producer Tommo: I am Tom Morris, a director, and charter financial planner over at Ovation Finance, who, I’m sure if you’ve listened to this podcast before, will know happily support this podcast and the information that we hope is of benefit to you all.

>> David Lloyd: And Chris, of course, isn’t, just a record collector. He was the man that set up evasion finance originally and is the whole, creator of the concept of financial wellbeing. And he wrote a book about it. two books. Two books, indeed. Two books on which this whole series of podcasts are, based.

>> Chris Budd: Now, Chris, can I just give a little plug? At that point, we should also mention the Institute of Financial Wellbeing, which I founded. And if there’s anybody listening to this who are financial advisors or financial planners or even financial coaches are interested in this stuff, go and join the IFW. It’s only 15 quid or something like that a month. Hardly anything. We’ve got a conference coming up in May with some awesome speakers, so please go and join the IFW and join in this fun.

>> Producer Tommo: Yeah, get on it, get on it. Get yourself a conference ticket as well. Well said, Chris. And ultimately, it’s also trying to improve the financial wellbeing of the nation or the world maybe one day, but ultimately, we’re trying to make good, but also improve the relationships that you’re having with your clients as well. So, yeah, please get involved. It’s always good to have more members and more voices heard.

>> David Lloyd: So, let’s move things on a little bit. I’m glad everybody’s well, hope you’ve all found that mildly diverting, but we need to move on, in a moment to the purpose of today’s podcast.

Tomo comes up with great tips on how to save money on golfing

But before we do, we’ve obviously got the most important thing, the thing, I think, that keeps people tuning in week after week or month after month, however often it is you do tune in, and that is tight ass Tomo’s tip of the podcast, where he comes up with great, suggestions about how we can save, ourselves a little bit of money. So, Tomo, what have you got for us today?

>> Producer Tommo: Well, this one might not hit home to everyone, but you might have loved ones who do this sport, you might do it yourself. but we’ve just had the Masters golf, which signals the start of the golf season, which I am super excited about. And I’m like a lot of golfers, I quite like playing with good golf balls, you know, ones that aren’t chipped and basically deserve to be in it, be in the bin, but I lose quite a few. So it’s kind of this. Do I want to spend a lot of money on golf balls if I’m going to lose some? not really. so somebody put me onto this website called lakebores.com. fantastic website where they literally go around the US and the UK going into lakes and finding all of these golf balls that have been hit into them, which, trust me, an awful lot do. they clean them up and then they grade them, depending on the quality of them, and you can buy them for literally half the price that you buy that ball. Brand new. so I’ve now, unfortunately, got a bit of a taste for something called tightness pro v one s, which are four quid each if you were to buy them new or you get them on this website. Really good quality, about two quid a pop. So lateboars.com recommend it. If you’ve got loved ones who might need a few golf balls or even a golf for yourself, get on there.

>> David Lloyd: They’ve recently taken up golf again, having not played much at all. And, there is no doubt that many of those balls will be my balls I’ll have put there over the years.

>> Chris Budd: I’ve got. I’ve got a tight ass Toyota golf tip. This is very niche. if you are a, ah, professional golfer on the PGA Tour, leave and go to the Liv Tour, and you’ll get a $350 million.

>> Producer Tommo: Perfect, right? Exactly. There you go.

>> David Lloyd: Excellent. Good. Okay, so lakeballs.com. i should be checking that one out, I think.

>> Producer Tommo: Yeah, do. It’s great.

>> David Lloyd: It’s great money, right?

Chris: I think reclaiming philanthropy is something financial advisors should get into

so, Chris, what’s the topic for today’s podcast?

> Chris Budd: So, I think philanthropy, is going to be the topic over the next ten years that financial planners and financial advisors should get into. I think it’s an area that financial advisors don’t talk about enough, that, people generally don’t discuss enough. And whether you have, you know, an inheritance to give, or whether you have, more money than you need, or whether you just have a spare tenor a month, or even if you just have a bit of time to give. All of this comes under the banner of philanthropy, but there are ways that you can give that will maximise your well being. And there’s a lady who came on the, first institute for financial wellbeing, conference, was an online conference. Emma Beeston came and spoke, and I think she was absolutely brilliant. She really opened my eyes to so much. She’s written a fantastic book, about reclaiming philanthropy and, called advising philanthropists. And so I wanted to have a chat with her. So, yeah, let’s have a listen to my chat with Emma Beeston, philanthropy advisor.

Hello, Emma. Thank you so much for joining us on our podcast today.

>> Emma Beeston: Oh, thanks, Chris. It’s really lovely to be here.

What do you understand by philanthropy? It is a tricky word

>> Chris Budd: So, I would like to start from the beginning, from the basics, if we could. because I think we should unpack, first of all, what we actually mean by this word philanthropy. What do you understand by that word?

>> Emma Beeston: It is a tricky word. We could debate it forever, and I don’t want to go down definition rabbit holes. Some people do and write massive books on it. So just sort of day to day, because I work in this space. I think the problem with the word is that people immediately think of a philanthropist being other than them. So, you know, it’s the billionaire. It’s usually a white american. Your Bill Gates is your Jeff Bezos, that’s who can be a philanthropist. So I like to use philanthropy and philanthropists kind of reclaiming it, I guess, for us as kind of that everybody can be an everyday philanthropist. You know, giving is good. Giving is human. We. That’s what we do. It’s part of our culture. It’s. It’s, you know, we are generous. Something about reclaiming philanthropy, for me, is when you are adding a bit more thought, a bit more structure, a bit more effort to your giving. So it’s about, ah. It could be that, therefore, you’re, you know, you’re a major donor that’s giving a significant amount. But it could be that, actually, you know, you’re thinking about your will, and you’re thinking about, what do I want to achieve with this bit of a legacy? So, you know, it’s all of us. Or it could be that you’re going to gather with other people. You know, I co founded a giving circle, that’s people bringing people together that pull their money, and then together they can make more difference. So, to me, it’s. Philanthropy is when you’re kind of doing it with a bit more intention and a little bit more kind of long term thinking about what it is you’re trying to achieve. Yeah.

>> Chris Budd: Okay. And m. so there’s two. Two thoughts that. Come on. I’ll just get them out of my head. I want to understand what it actually is, but also I want to understand how we do it to be happier, because that’s what this podcast is all about, well, being and being happier. So, first of all, you say doing it because. And, the reason I particularly want to just stop there is because it can be money, but it can also be time and other resources, can’t it?

Philanthropy gets described as the five t’s. It’s your money, it’s your time

>> Emma Beeston: Yeah. So, I mean, philanthropy gets described as the five t’s. So it’s. It’s treasure. So it’s your money, it’s your time. It’s also your talent. So if you’ve got skills that you. And expertise that you can offer, it’s testimonies. So, if I can big up something because I’ve got a profile and I can add my voice to it, and ties is about, you know, connections. Can I link people? Can I bring other people along to my giving? So it is more, then I’m, not going to say just the money, because the money is really, really important, and every charity out there in the land, you know, needs the money to be able to do their work. But it is. Yes, it is bigger than money.

>> Chris Budd: Just tell us those five t’s again. That’s great. Treasure time.

>> Emma Beeston: Treasure time. Talent, testimony and tithes.

>> Chris Budd: T y t h e. Tithe.

>> Emma Beeston: Ties.

>> Chris Budd: Oh, sorry. Ties.

>> Emma Beeston: It’s your connections. Can you bring your connections?

>> Chris Budd: Gotcha. Thank you very much. That’s great. So that’s brilliant way to start acting, because it opens up the whole thing. Because I think a lot of people will think that, philanthropy is for other people, exactly as you say when you bring those five areas in. Well, actually, I can do a bit of that. In fact, probably most people already do do a bit of that, don’t they?

>> Emma Beeston: Yeah. And then, if you think about it over your lifetime, you know, so it’s like, what have I got to be to be a philanthropist? I’ve got, I don’t know, give over millions and get something named after me. But actually, if we are volunteering regularly, if we are helping people, if we are giving a bit of money over a lifetime, we’re doing a lot of good. So it’s like my ten pound a month might not sound very much, but my ten pound a month over my lifetime is going to make some difference in the world.

>> Chris Budd: And also helping out in your community. Maybe you’ve got kids and you’re helping out with the rugby coaching or whatever it might be. That’s all part of this discussion then.

>> Emma Beeston: Yeah. I mean, the reality is, I mean, I’m a philanthropy advisor, as you know, and the reality is that I tend to spend a lot of my time talking about the money because that’s the tricky bit. not entirely, but, you know, that’s, that’s the bit that you’re handing over. You know, with my clients, you know, they’re handing over significant sums and it takes a bit of work and it takes a bit of thought and it takes a bit of managing that relationship and working out what they want to do takes time. So I do spend more of my time on the money, but the other things come into it because you’re saying, well, what else can you bring? How else can you help? What else can you offer?

>> Chris Budd: So I’m interested to, talk about the dangers of that approach, or wanting to put your. Or insisting that your time comes along with your money, for example.

How can you structure your charitable giving to maximise your wellbeing

but before we do that, let’s get out some simple principles about if you’re going to plan your giving of time or your resources or your money, how would you structure that to maximise your wellbeing?

>> Emma Beeston: Well, I guess I’m going to come straight back that maximising your wellbeing isn’t the most important thing in that there will be.

>> Chris Budd: No, but I guess what. I mean, I know that’s not the first priority, that the giving is to help other people, but, let’s assume you’ve chosen some really good things. How can you then ensure that you’re. Because it’s very easy to give. I’m thinking of homelessness, for example. I’m sure lots of people, lots of us care about homelessness, but, I remember reading a long, long time ago that if you give to somebody on the street, you’re giving out of a sense of, guilt, which is not a particularly good for your well being. Whereas if you organise and structure your well being to a homeless charity, you can see the impact and therefore that’s much more likely to make you feel good. So that’s giving both, providing both solutions, if you like, makes sense.

>> Emma Beeston: It does make sense and I think so.

One common response to overwhelmed is feeling overwhelmed

I think one thing that we can kind of try and guard against in terms of well being is, you know, the world is big and complicated, and there’s so much need. So one of the real common responses of that is kind of overwhelm. I don’t know what to do for the best, or I’m just a drop in the ocean. And so people don’t do anything. And that’s a really common reaction because it feels too hard, too difficult, too big to just too much. And so I think for our well being, you know, one thing you can do is just kind of take the mindset of what bit can I do? So it is, you know, what areas of interest, you know, do I connect with? And then thinking about, you know, if you can, if you can focus. So it might be on homelessness, it might be on something completely other. It means that you can get to grips with that area, you can learn more about it, you can understand it, you can know those groups that you’re giving to, what they’re trying to do, what difference you’re making, and you can kind of give yourself permission to say no to other things in a way that you can go, look, you know, I can’t do it all. And so I’m just gonna, I’m gonna focus on this, and I’m gonna do this to the best of my ability. It might be one thing, it might be, you know, we’re all, you know, we’ve got connections because, I don’t know, there’s a medical condition in the family. We’re connected with that. We’re connected with something that might be more about our, values. You know, it doesn’t have to be one thing, but I think if you can make it more manageable, that gives you more space to be positive and less kind of being pulled in lots of different directions and just worrying that you’re kind of dissipating your efforts and what difference is it going to make? So I think that helps with your well being, and it also, I think, helps you kind of amplify your resources as well. Love.

>> Chris Budd: It.

Philanthropy is expression of your values, says Simon Reynolds

So that sounds like there could be a bit of a process there about understanding what you would want to connect to, aligning values, and then understanding what the charity does to see how it will have, how your money will have an impact on the things that matter to you.

>> Emma Beeston: I mean, I think giving is. And reclaiming philanthropy is expression of your values. Absolutely. So it is, you know, you want to see the world being more just, more equitable, or you want to preserve some important culture or habitat, you know, your your goal is about what you want the world to be and what matters to you, so that you’re kind of tapping into that. And then I think it’s good that people within that do different things. So, you know, some people respond to disaster appeals, and that’s great, because that money is needed. It’s needed quickly. You need people to respond. Other people want to support. You know, if you’re saying, I don’t know, I’m really interested in dementia, for whatever reason, a family connection or just, you know, thinking about the future, and you can say, you know, I can do something that’s a charity that’s about very directly supporting people who have dementia now and, you know, helping them live well, helping their carers, supporting in all sorts of ways within my community. But you can also say, actually, I really want us to change our society to be dementia family, or I want to fund research. That means we understand this and we’re helping into the future, and we need people, you know, across all of those. And that’s true for every issue, like you say, for homelessness, for mental health, for all sorts of things. So I think it’s great that people come with their. Their different interests, but I think if you feel like it’s all down to you, or you feel like you have to do everything, then that’s really tough on well being.

>> Chris Budd: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m just. This is a little bit naughty question to ask, but, well, I’m just curious when, you might have somebody that you advise who wants to give money to something that maybe isn’t particularly making the world a better place, but it’s a bee in their bonnet. It’s something that they’ve got a thing about. I don’t know, a conspiracy theorist who wants to support chemtrails campaigning or some silly thing like that. Apologies to anybody listening who believes in chemtrails. I think they’re an absolute nonsense. And just the person I could think of was a silly thing. If you get somebody wanting to do that, do you guide them away from it, or is that not really what you can do? Sorry, this is a naughty question.

>> Emma Beeston: No, it’s a good question. And the ethics of philanthropy advice is something I talk about quite a lot, and people will have different approaches and different lines. So some people are, It’s their money. Philanthropy is a voluntary effort. You know, they can. I can support whatever cause that’s not my place. And, other people are like, you know, if they’re not trying to, you know, create an equitable, just world in these progressive values, you know, then I can’t help them. I mean, I have lines I probably won’t go into. There will be. I won’t be able to support somebody with, you know, they’re going to, I don’t know, fund draconian LGBT laws in Uganda at the moment. That’s. That’s not going to be where I will feel able to help them. And I’ll have to explain that and walk away. But most people, and I have to say all my clients are lovely and, you know, trying to do good things. And I guess they’re drawn to me because of my values, I’m drawn to them because of theirs. So it’s not, it’s not a huge issue. Well, I think it’s more. And it will come up and people will have their lines. but I think what’s actually more common is more about the way people do their giving.

>> Chris Budd: Okay.

>> Emma Beeston: I think there are ways people give that I will be challenging, probably more than what they want to give to. And that’s because you can give in ways that cause problems for the recipients and that don’t really respect them. So if you come, with quite a kind of ego driven top down, I want this charity to do this for me and, be quite directive and specific and restrictive and quite demanding. That’s actually really difficult. And that sort of behaviour, when it happens, I would be involved in kind of explaining you’re bringing the funds, charities, bringing expertise. It’s about a partnership to achieve a greater, good. And actually some of the traditional practise can get in the way of that. So if you’re placing a burden on the recipient to kind of give you lots of information in very short, or want change really quickly in ways that aren’t realistic, I think it can cause problems. So you kind of want people to be generous and say, look, I’m supporting you, I understand what you’re trying to do. I’m backing you. Use these funds in whichever way you see fit. I appreciate change takes time. It’s difficult, it’s complicated. Let’s work alongside each other for a good amount of time and let’s, you know, see what can happen. So to me, that’s quite important. It’s the. How you’re coming into it.

>> Chris Budd: I can imagine that comes up quite a lot. I mean, I’ve been involved with a number of a trustee, a number of charities. but my first experience of something like this, was being a governor at my local junior school. Many years ago and I learned a very important lesson because I made the mistake that I saw a lot of other people making when they wanted to be governors, which is, if you want to support something to help them achieve their aims, you go in and you say, I’m here, I’ve got a bit of time, what can I do? What I did and so many other people were doing, especially with the school governor, is your communication is rubbish. So I’m going to become a school governor so I can make that better. And of course the head’s going, well, I don’t think our communication is rubbish and it just end up in an argument. so if you get involved with something because you want to help them achieve their aims, great. If you want to do something because you think you want to change something, that can end in tears, can’t it?

>> Emma Beeston: Exactly. And the same would be true for volunteering as well. It’s kind of like I think you said there were some dangers in that, which there can be, you know, the motive, the intention and the way you do things is really important so that you’re supportive.

>> Chris Budd: Yeah. So if somebody’s sitting there thinking, maybe I’ve got a hundred pound a month spare that I could spend, or, I’ve got some time I could spend, or maybe they’ve got an inheritance or maybe they’re writing their will, all of those things philanthropy, aren’t they? There’s a few questions that might be in their head. One of them that is always, I’ve always wondered about is it better to focus on one place to give to or is it better to spread your time and money around?

>> Emma Beeston: So I think generally, and I sort of said this a little bit better, it’s hard to kind of be pulled in lots of different directions. You can say, I want to give a certain amount to all these causes and that’s fine, you know, absolutely. You can. If you kind of want to feel a bit more connected, a bit more engaged, I think it’s easier to have a narrower, focus so that you can, you can learn, you can develop over time of like, oh, I really understand this issue and I can see what they’re needed and I can think about it. I can bring other resources in here because it’s an area that I get so I can talk about it to other people and get them involved. You know, those ripples, I think are easier, whereas when you’ve kind of got a list, it’s harder to be as engaged and to learn about all of them. it’s, yeah, I think that’s the sort of biggest thing. Obviously, it matters more at scale. You know, if we’re giving, you know, several ten pounds a month, that’s kind of okay. And charities are fine with that. They rely on those everyday givers. But I think when it’s, if you’re thinking about it as the gift in your will or you’re thinking at it as a significant donation, I think to spread it thin is you, you can kind of dissipate some of the impact that you could have because with a chunk of something you might be able to make something happen that wouldn’t, or you might be able to pay for something that a charity needs. But, you know, it’s harder for them to kind of gather it from other resources because it’s potentially a bit of a boring thing that they need an evaluation or research, you know, that you can come in and kind of make that happen when it wouldn’t. So I do think some sort of, focus is good, but, you know, I think all giving is important and everybody can give more, I think pretty much, even though I know we’ve got really hard times and cost of living, but I think we can all step it up.

Emma says charities generally want a relationship with potential donors

>> Chris Budd: Can you give us a perspective from the charity’s point of view? So suppose somebody, there’s a particular cause, there’s a charity that does that cause. How would the charity like to be approached?

>> Emma Beeston: So I get a nice job. Sometimes when I do, like, get in touch with somebody and say, I’m working with a donor, they’re interested in supporting your work. can we have a conversation? Now, that’s a lovely kind of email to get as a charity, except they don’t know who I am. I mean, I’ve had scam Mackenzie Scott emails. I don’t know if you have. I think I had one yesterday. They’re going to give me a million pounds if I reply to this email. So people, charities have to be cautious, quite rightly. So they will cheque me out and I will have done my research into them first. And I kind of say, look, you know, I can’t guarantee this is going to turn into a donation, but I genuinely think you’d be well advised to spend half an hour with me. And that’s what I’m asking of you. So, we can have that conversation and then I can be open and honest about where it might go, where it might not go, what the donor’s interested in, what they might not be, and the sort of timescale we’re talking the sort of amounts they’re talking. So it’s trying to be as open and honest as I can be in that situation. And I think I’d like to feel that that’s welcomed. You know, I’m kind of being respectful. Say, cheque me out, make sure I’m legitimate. I know you’re busy, but can you give me this amount of time? I think it’s worth your while. charities generally, I mean, you know, the kind of mystery sum is always lovely, but they do also want a relationship. They want to be able to thank the donor, they want to be able to say what they’re doing.

>> Chris Budd: They’re proud to meet and to share the impact of what they’re doing.

>> Emma Beeston: This is brilliant. Thank you. And they want to say, this is what we’re doing. We’re excited. We’re telling you about all this is hard for us. Is there anything you can do to help us? So charities generally want a relationship. I think it’s about being proportionate, how much they’ve got, plenty of other things they need to be doing. So it’s kind of like, you know, how easy can you make it for them? You know, do you need some separate information or is there an existing report? Can you do as much research yourself before you ask them to kind of provide you with anything? and yeah, I think charities, you know, have to be careful with their time because that’s, you know, that’s not what they’re trying to do. They’re trying to make a change in the world. They’ve got plenty of other demands on their time.

>> Chris Budd: I’m guessing from what you’ve said earlier on, Emma, that, a charity would prefer a no strings attached donation than a, you need to use it for this, or put my name on the building or whatever it might be.

>> Emma Beeston: I think if you ask anyone, and I’m sure you had fundraisers on here, they want as much money as you can give for as long as you can, with as few restrictions as you can make. And there’s a dialogue within that because, you know, they’ll understand that sometimes trust needs to build in a relationship. So it might be a smaller gift at first because you’re building that relationship and trying to learn. They understand that some, you know, funders need to put restriction because they can only give to Bristol or whatever. So, you know, it’s fine. But I think, again, it’s about having that open dialogue. But yeah, the least restriction. I mean, I’ve certainly interviewed, like, charity leaders recently and you know, it’s tricky if your money’s tied up and somebody else is directing how it’s allocated when they don’t know as, you know, how best it can be allocated. That’s quite a tricky position to be in.

> Chris Budd: Yeah. In your brilliant book, advising philanthropists, it really is such a great read. there’s something you talk about having a head or a heart approach. Could you describe those two, which I think are opposite end of the spectrum? Is that right?

> Emma Beeston: They are. I kind of think you need both, but that’s not. That’s my opinion. But there is that idea that, you know, giving with the head is very much about, Is this going to be effective? Is this going to be the best, most impact I can make with my money? You know, is this. So you’re kind of getting into metrics and evidence base and. And that kind of objective thinking with your giving, which is important, because, you know, your money’s precious, and you do want it to go out and do the most good it can in the world.

And then at the other end is the heart, which is very much your, You want your kind of ruled by kind of compassion and reaction. You go, I want to help people, and I’m giving with love and, support. I personally think both have, their place. I don’t think it’s an either or. I think it’s quite hard to sustain your philanthropy if you’re not emotionally connected and passionate and caring about it.

> Chris Budd: And presumably that’s where the well being comes from as well. Yeah.

> Emma Beeston: but you also kind of want to be careful and, you know, make some decisions about in this world. Listen to the expertise, listen to what people are saying, listen to the community. What is it that they want? What is it that’s making the most difference? What is the need? So there is objectivity in there, but it’s not just about what you want, but it’s about what’s the data telling us, what’s the situation telling us what is needed. So I think they both come together. and it does make it harder, I think, to sometimes, it therefore makes it easier to support the things that are more direct and more obvious.

And actually, philanthropy can be really useful on areas like prevention or, you know, changing a system or doing some of the mindset change stuff that is long term and difficult, and it’s hard for some people to then be emotionally engaged with that. So there is some interesting work that’s kind of. I know people are looking into of, like, how do we help people to be emotionally engaged and feel well being around things like prevention because they’re needed. But how do we kind of get the heart to go?

> Chris Budd: You can’t see the impact of prevention, can you?

> Emma Beeston: About prevention? Exactly.

> Chris Budd: Yeah. you can’t see the impact of prevention because. Because by definition, there isn’t any impact if that’s what you’re doing. Yeah, that’s exactly.

> Emma Beeston: So. It’s a really tricky one. And with system, you know, with wanting to change a system, you know, it’s, it’s relative. You know, people are more like to say, you know, I would like to help, you know, young people feel better in terms of their mental helpful, their mental wellbeing or support them. It’s very, it’s hard to say, you know, what is it that’s making young people anxious and what are all these different factors going on and how do they all interlink?

And what can we do about those as a society? And some people are fascinated by that and are working in that space, but I think it can sometimes be harder to kind of get that connection to things that are a bit more theoretical, like how do we change the economic system and how do you change the education system, which, are, good things to be exploring, but not necessarily where people are giving. So that’s why I think head and heart are both good.

>> Chris Budd: Yeah, that’s fascinating. That particularly, touches something with me because of lifestyle prescribing. My wife is very involved with, preventative medicine. And it’s a lot easier to give money to something that’s putting plasters on people or giving them chemotherapy or whatever it might be, because you can see the impact, but creating awareness that actually you can reduce the chances of getting cancer if you live a better lifestyle that you don’t see the impact of. So I get that. That’s a very, very interesting point.

Now, just to finish up, Emma, I would like to just m a lot of our listeners are advisors and there’s something you said when you spoke at the first, Institute of Financial Wellbeing conference, online conference. There’s a comment that you made there which really, really resonated with me, which was you said that the amount of giving in the UK is horrifically low. The amount of money. I think the last statistic I heard was that the average amount of money that somebody with 10 million or more in assets, the average amount that they give to charity a year, is something like 4000 pounds a year.

And given that some people give hundreds of millions, that means that most people probably don’t give anything at all. And you made the comment that advisors have a responsibility in many ways. I’m paraphrasing you, but you said that the reason a lot of people don’t discuss it with their advisors is because they feel a bit embarrassed, and that it’s. The advisors actually have a duty to be the ones to raise this. Now, am I representing your words fairly in that?

> Emma Beeston: M. I do think advisors have a responsibility to talk about philanthropy or giving, if that’s more comfortable, because there are lots of lovely, generous people out there, and actually, a lot of people with less money are more generous. But I do think, as a society, we want people who have more money to give more. I do, and I think they are in a position to do more. And I think we have kind of luxury magazines that celebrate, you know, these lifestyles of, you can stay in this hotel, and this is the holiday to have and this second home and whatever, and we seem quite comfortable with people using their money to buy stuff. And I just would like some of that attention and appeal, to also be on giving and philanthropy.

I feel it’s a social duty, and. And, I feel like more people can do more, and I would like to see them do more. the need is huge. The prize of unlocking that money and it going to do good is amazing. And I would, you know, philanthropy can’t do everything. You know, obviously, it’s not. Even if everybody ramps it up, it hasn’t got the scale, but it can do more, and we can do more, and wealthy people can give more. so I think, as a financial advisor, if you can just introduce the giving into the conversation like it’s normal and start having that conversation, and they don’t have to have all the answers. But there’s people like me and there’s lots of other people that are flattery advisors. They just can say it exists, go out, and you can have help with this. You don’t have to do it on your own. But I think just creating that normal. And actually, what’s interesting is the embarrassing thing.

The data says that clients want their advisors to talk to them about it. And actually, lots of people are giving, and they want to be doing more, and they want to. Certainly with the younger generations coming in and talking about their purpose and their impact in the world, it’s much more significant. And actually, it’s often the advisors that don’t want to bring up the topic because it’s not their skill area, and they don’t want to therefore introduce a topic that they’re not expert in, And I would like them to kind of get over that. They don’t have to know it all. They don’t have to be expert.

But I do think there’s a role for starting those conversations and saying, you know, what giving are you doing? would you like any help with your philanthropy? What are you thinking about? You know, how can I help you? What are you, you know, can I, you know, suggest some resources? Can I suggest some advisors that can help you? It’s just bringing it into the conversation, like, of course it’s something you’d like to do because some people haven’t thought about it, and then you can kind of crack that spark and go, oh, interesting.

>> Chris Budd: You know, or even better, maybe somebody is. Has thought about it, is doing it a little bit, but not very well, not very organised, and then the advisor can get in and help.

>> Emma Beeston: Yeah.

>> Chris Budd: brilliant. That’s a lovely, lovely spot to finish on. Amber, thank you so much for joining us. I’ve been absolutely fascinated by it, and, well done on your book. It’s really, really, really good.

>> Emma Beeston: Thank you so much, Chris.

> David Lloyd: Well, fascinating interview. What a lovely woman. Actually, she sounded like a really nice person, if I’m allowed to say that. I know we were always told at school not to use the word nice, but, I mean, she sounded like a wonderful person.

> Chris Budd: Yes, I agree. She a lovely timber to her voice, actually. She’s just somebody you want to listen to. Yeah.

> David Lloyd: And I like the way she talked about towards the end of the interview, she talked about she sees reclaiming philanthropy as a social duty. and that really chimed with me. I mean, obviously, you can’t tell people that they have to be philanthropic, but I think if you get into your consciousness, into your mind, that it’s a really important way for you to make a contribution to society, I, think that’s a really good driving force.

> Chris Budd: I completely agree. I particularly feel that about community involvement, actually giving of time. I think everybody should be. I know, Tom, you’re currently coaching kids at rugby. don’t just another touchline get involved.

> David Lloyd: You know, that’s something Chris and I have done, and we’ve referred to it several times on the podcast. We’ve both been involved with our local cricket club coaching kids, and certainly time, over, if I look at it, made me think a lot about my philanthropy and what I do and what I don’t do. And certainly time is something I’ve always given on various voluntary bodies, as a school governor, as a parish councillor, helping out the cricket club, and I think that’s a really good way of making a contribution if money is tight. But there’s another thing that I do as well, which was sparked by. She said in interview, she said, sometimes people think I can’t give any money because it feels like it’s too much.

I’m a member of an organisation called 500 reasons. Now, 500 reasons was set up by somebody I know, back in 2017, and there are now several groups around the country. If, you want to find out more about it, just google 500 reasons. But most simply, what we do is there are 500 of us ish and we all give a pound a week, set up a direct debit and a pound a week goes into this organisation. If you have a cause that you think is a worthwhile cause, somebody who you think is deserving of a bit of a financial, assistance, you can nominate them to the committee of people that run 500 reasons and every week they give somebody 500 quid.

And so it’s a way of making a small amount of money turn into something a little bit more meaningful that could have a real impact on somebody’s life. obviously a pound a week, I don’t notice it, it just goes out and every so often I see something and I go, oh, that’s good. We ought to try and help out with that. And I will make a nomination, or other people do. And every week we get an email from the organisers saying, this is who we give you the money to this week. And it’s a really simple and effective way of being part of something that can, you know, make a significant difference to somebody else. So I would recommend that to people. Yeah, it’s a really nice idea and it just makes you feel that you’re doing something, something good that doesn’t really take up much of your time or indeed much of your money.

> Producer Tommo:  I was listening with my ear as a financial planner, that’s. Sorry, with my hat as a financial planner on, just trying to think about how these conversations come about. And they do. But it did really make me think, if those financial planners are listening and these conversations are coming up, go and contact Emma, get her involved, bring her as a consultant into those discussions with your clients.

I think the website is, and we’ll put this in the show notes is Emma Beeston.co.uk. Beeston is with two e’s. I just found it fascinating. It just broke it down really simply, and brought out some key aspects. I love the five t’s by the way, the idea of treasure time, talent ties and testimony, I think I did it quite in the right order. but we all have a talent and we often have some time, and not everyone has treasure. So I just thought it was brilliant.

> David: Many people want to talk about philanthropy, but they won’t

> Chris Budd: I’d like to just close with a couple of thoughts, if I may. one of them is for the financial advisors and planners that are listening. The takeaway for me is that your clients want to talk about this, but they probably won’t raise it. That was one of Emma’s messages, so you need to be the one to raise the question. And you will be surprised at how many people really want to talk about this subject, but they just don’t like to mention it. So it’s your job to mention it.

And the second thing is, there’s a line from the Archbishop Desmond Tutu from the Book of Joy, which I quote all the time. And it’s really important, although we can say, everybody should give more. We should do this, you should do that. Actually, do you know what? Be selfish about it, because. And this is the line from the Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Joy is your reward for the giving of joy. So actually giving, it’s kind of selfish, too. It’s okay. Makes you feel good.

> Producer Tommo: Win win.

> Chris Budd: Right?

> Producer Tommo: Win win. Just on. Just on that. If you’re a. If you’re a financial planner and you’re doing a cash flow planning exercise, and it’s clear that somebody has more than enough, there’s a great trigger. But also, just because somebody’s wealthy, don’t, don’t, don’t get lazy in thinking that you shouldn’t create a longer term, cash flow financial plan for them to tell them they have enough, because that could be a great opportunity to discuss this exact subject.

> Chris Budd: So.

> Producer Tommo: Yeah.

> Chris Budd: Amen.

> David Lloyd: Yeah. Very true. And I think. And I think giving is always relative as well. We might think I’m a bit skinny. I can’t really afford to give any time I’m too busy or give any money, because I just don’t have it. But then look at some of the people that would benefit from what you can give. And, I think you can always find resources within your own life to give, even if it’s a very, very small amount, even if it’s a pound a week. I think you can always find something.

> Emma Beeston: Yeah.

> Producer Tommo: And, David, just, just, And labour. The point that she made about philanthropy, it’s a word. And I love the fact that that community are trying to get back control of that word. And it is all relative. Philanthropy isn’t just the big billionaire boys. It’s all of us. It can be all of us. It’s just on different scales.

> David Lloyd: Well, it’s been a really interesting chat. I have a great interview, Chris. I hope you’ve got something from that at home. and I hope you’ll join us next time for another one in our long, running series of financial well being podcasts.

Do you have any financial wellbeing questions you would like us to answer? Or do you have a #tightasstommo money saving tip you would like to share with our listeners?

If so, let us know by going to Twitter @Finwellbeing or email – contact@financialwell-being.co.uk

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