Financial Infidelity

In this episode of The Financial Wellbeing Podcast, we’re lifting the lid on a tricky topic: financial infidelity. What does it really mean? How can it show up in everyday life? And most importantly – how can you spot it, talk about it, and navigate it with your partner?

Whether you’re looking to strengthen financial trust, avoid money pitfalls, or just enjoy some honest money talk with a dash of humour, this episode is for you.

Welcomes and Introductions

Fancy a chat with Tom Morris and the team at Ovation? Contact details here

Whats on Today’s Podcast

Exploring what financial infidelity means and how to avoid or navigate it.

Link to Episode 120 and our chat with Dr Megan McCoy

Tight Ass Tommo

Featuring the #tightasstommo origin story, a mobile phone loyalty trick from Chris Hull and odd rail card options.

Come and get involved!

We want to hear your Messages From the Future. Record a short, 30-second message, sharing a decision you’re glad you made (or one you regret) to help others make better choices. Send your voice clips to marketing@ovationfinance.co.uk and join the conversation.

This episode:

What “financial infidelity” can mean, how to define it

Everyday examples where it can happen

Chris’s personal story of family bankruptcy

Tom’s practical tip for guilt-free budgeting

Tamzin Caine’s tips

Smart Divorce Podcast link

What ever the reason, hiding any aspect of your life from your partner is going to lead to issues in the relationship

Tamzin Cane

• Arrange regular money dates with calm conversations
• Couples counselling
• Individual support
• Find support, such as The Brightside app / Surviving Economic Abuse

Conclusions From The Guys

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Transcript:

Time for another one of our financial well being podcasts

David Lloyd: Foreign. Hello again. Welcome everybody. It’s that time. Time for another one of our financial well being podcasts. In fact, this is number 121, 121 of them. And I’ve been involved of all of them, apart from one when, Chris and Tom sneaked off and did one without me. So we’ve been doing this a good long time. Chris and Tom, who are they? You ask?

Tom Morris is director and chartered financial planner at Ovation Finance

Tom, you go first today. Who are you? Who are you?

Producer Tommo: I’ve not heard that intro before. It’s never gets old, David. Always love it. Yeah, so Tom Morris, director and chartered financial planner at Ovation Finance, who kindly sponsor this podcast and have been doing so since. Since the outset. Yeah, I think, which is always why I like to let people know about who we are. So we’re an independent chartered, financial planning firm. We’re B Corp certified and very proud of that and also employee owned, which is something else we’re very proud of. So, yeah, if you find yourself wanting to talk about your financial planning needs, come and have a chat. more than happy to have a conversation.

David Lloyd: Excellent.

David Lloyd says on his passport it says writer

And now let’s talk to the man who used to own Ovation and sold it to his employees.

Chris Budd: Chris, buddy, good morning. I’m gonna say this time I’m an author. I went on holiday recently with Susie, my wife. We got to the passport control and she was at the passport person to my right. I was at the passport person on the left and they said occupation. And I thought, why not, let’s go for it. I said writer. and I looked at my wife, I looked to my right and Susie’s face was you what? But, well, I published six books, so I kind of, you know, I write lots of articles about financial well being and stuff. So yeah, what the hell, Writer. But particularly, for the purposes of this podcast, I’m an expert in the subject of the relationship between money and happiness. And I work with various different organisations, write articles and design training programmes, etc.

David Lloyd: And that’s something we explore on a regular basis now. In fact, on my passport it says writer, so I went to Morocco.

Chris Budd: I mean, you really have been one, David. I mean you really can, you made a living from it, so.

David Lloyd: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but, but you know, I think a writer writes. That’s the, that’s the bottom line, Chris. I think you’ve got every right to call yourself a writer. Anyway, so on my passport it says writer. And I went to Morocco many years ago and I was going through customs and the guys looks at my Passport. And he says writer. And I went, yes. He said, what sort of a writer? And his eyes narrowed and he went, are you a journalist? And I went, no, no, I write for television. Anyway, okay, stamp the passport. So clearly there’s writers and writers, depending on which country you go to. but yes. So who am I, you might ask? Well, I am David Lloyd, and I have been, as I said earlier, hosting this podcast for many years. I am a writer. I’m kind of semi retired, but I’ve still got a very interesting script on the go at the moment that’s got a bit of traction. I don’t want to say too much about it at the moment until it becomes something a little bit more, real. But.

Chris Budd: But it’s not John Wick 5, is it?

David Lloyd: No, no, no. It’s something I’ve been working on with a, with a few other former Doctors writers, the series I used to write for. And, and it has attracted a certain amount of interest from, from the broadcasters. We’ve got a big meeting about it next week. And as. And when I’m in a position to tell you more, if there is more to tell you, I will reveal all.

Chris and David will discuss financial infidelity on today’s podcast

So I’m not totally packed in yet, but by and large, I’m taking a little bit easier playing a lot more golf, and also enjoying co hosting this financial wellbeing podcast. And on today’s podcast, Chris, could you tell us what we’re going to be talking about today?

Chris Budd: David, we are going to be talking about financial infidelity.

David Lloyd: Now, that rings a bell, because that was a phrase that Megan McCoy used in that recent very good interview that you did with her, isn’t it?

Chris Budd: Yeah, that’s right. Very good. you thought it was an interesting phrase and you asked me to do some research. And a very interesting subject it has turned out to be. And, we’re going to have a look at the different types of financial infidelity. And then with the help of a lady called Tamsin Kane, a, financial planner who specialises in divorce, we’re going to look at some tips to help couples to avoid getting into tricky situations with their finances and what to do if you are in said tricky situation.

David Lloyd: Right. I suspect this could well be a bit of a minefield through which we will have to tiptoe. But I’m looking very much forward to that conversation.

Our regular feature where Titus Tomo comes up with a money saving tip

But before we have it, we need to move on to our regular feature where Titus Tomo, the aforementioned Tom Morris comes up with, a money saving tip. Now, every so often I feel obliged for new listeners of the podcast to just briefly remind people as to how Tom got this nickname. Many years ago, he was going out with Chris and another work colleague, for lunch, and Tom said, don’t worry, guys, this is on me. I think he perhaps recently joined the company and he was out to impress them at the time. He said, I’m going to treat you all to lunch. So he took them to a specific place, they were looking at the menu, and he steered them deftly towards a particular item on the menu. It was a chicken dish. And he said, guys, do you know what? I’m not saying what you need to have, what you should eat, but, you know, I had this here recently and it was absolutely brilliant. One of the nicest chicken things I’ve ever, ever had in my life. In fact, I’d go as far to say it’s probably the best dish I’ve ever eaten anywhere in my life. I might be over egging this pudding, by the way, but, you know, there.

Chris Budd: Was no egg in the dish.

David Lloyd: It’s a good story. So, Chris and the colleague was so impressed by this that they both immediately said, well, it’s a great recommendation. We’re going to have that. What they subsequently discovered was that the reason Tom was pointing them in that direction was he was the proud possessor of, of a voucher, a voucher, that entitled three people to eat that delicious chicken dish for absolutely nothing. And so the lunch that he, that he took them out for cost him diddly squat. He might have had to buy the drinks, I don’t know. Or maybe he said, I tell you what, guys, I’ll get the food anyway. So. So he established for himself a reputation then as a man that, that knows the value of stuff and knows how to get out of paying for things. And so from that a legend has been born. And he’s given us over the years many, many great tips. Some of them really, really useful, some of them a bit silly, but all always very enjoyable. But before we move on to him.

Chris Budd: Can I just say, I think that, that often repeated story doesn’t really do any justice to Tomo. I don’t want listeners to think that that’s the only example we’ve got of his meanness. It’s been many times over the years.

Producer Tommo: Yeah, just ask my, Just ask my poor suffering wife.

David Lloyd: That’s good to know.

Chris Hull says if you text capitals PAC to the number 65075

But before we come on to Tom’s tip for the day, Chris, do you have anything for us?

Chris Budd: I do, actually, and this comes from a friend of mine and of yours, David.

David Lloyd: Chris Hull.

Chris Budd: Chris Hull, is a digital marketing expert. Come and say hi to him on LinkedIn. He’s a lovely man. I haven’t tried this, I haven’t tried this out. So, this is Chris’s fault if it all goes horribly wrong. All right. He says if you text capitals PAC to the number 65075 from your phone, it automatically sends you a code from your network provider and then flags on their system that you are looking to potentially leave and that this can then trigger a loyalty communication which could benefit you. Now, I haven’t tried this out, PAC to 65075.

David Lloyd: Well, I know about the pack code because, because in fact, my partner’s son has recently changed his phone and needed to get hold of that code. So that’s interesting that you could trigger that. I might give that a go actually.

Chris Budd: That’s a very good. I, I hold. No, you know, if it turns out that all terrible things are, ah, suddenly washed upon you, not my fault. Okay. It’s your own liability you’re taking if you give this a go.

David Lloyd: All right? And if you’re going to sue anybody, sue Chris Hull and not Tom.

Two Together rail card gives you access to a third off train tickets

What have you got for us today?

Producer Tommo: Do you know what this came to mind and was inspired by? a conversation with Chris, actually. I don’t whether I remember train travel. Not the cheapest thing in the world, let’s be honest. It’s starting to become more and more prohibitive unfortunately. But it’s always worth checking what rail cards you might be entitled to. and I’ll give a specific example in a minute. But, but these rail cards, they cost around 35 pound a year. They give you access to around about a third off of train tickets. So usually people of a certain age, I think there’s ones for if you’re under 30. I think those that are over 60 or state pension age would be able to buy one as well. Some, if you have any links to the military and have, have done any service there, you get one. But, but one that would, could potentially work for a lot of people is something called Two Together rail card. And this is where you can buy one as a couple. And providing your travelling together when you are using the tickets, you’ll both get a third off of your train fare. so I think Chris, you used it with Susie, didn’t you?

Chris Budd: That’s right. In fact it, the, the, the reduced fare plus the cost of the rail card was less than the cost of the ticket would have Been.

Producer Tommo: Yeah, so. So you first. You usually use it for that first journey. Might save a bit of money or be cost neutral, but then your quid’s in for the rest of the year. And, yeah, there you go. If you travel with somebody quite regularly, you think couples going into, going to various parts of the country on train, get one of these, cost you 35 quid a year, and you go and get yourself a third off of train travel if you go together. So I thought that would be quite a useful tip.

David Lloyd: Now, that is a brilliant tip and I am the proud owner of a Senior Railcard, and I have been for 10 years now, because you get one when you’re over 60 and you can over three years pay, I think it’s £75 for three years. And on that basis I use it twice, maybe three times, and it’s paid for itself. And if I’m going up to London on next, Monday to see a prom at the Royal Albert hall, and my return ticket, which would normally cost well over £100, is costing me £49. so it’s definitely worth doing. And I didn’t know about this two together one, but that’s really good. don’t get me started on the complex nature of rail tickets.

Chris Budd: Good idea, this country.

David Lloyd: But obviously any opportunity we can take to use the trains, which are, very good and very green and obviously keeps traffic off the roads. And if we can do it in an affordable way, I think that’s a great tip. So thank you very much, Tom.

Chris: When faced with a tricky decision, what did you do

Before we go on to the main body of the podcast, a little reminder that we’d love to hear from you@, marketingvationfinance.co.uk. and we’d like to hear your Titus Tomo tips. And. And we’d also love to hear your tips from the future. So when faced with a tricky decision, the sort that others are also likely to be faced with, what did you do that you now realise was the right thing or even the wrong thing? What message would you like to send back to others to learn from? Okay, got that right. Now, Chris, please introduce us to today’s topic. As alluded to earlier, it sounds like we could be entering dangerous waters.

Chris Budd: We are certainly going to have to tread carefully.

Producer Tommo: Sorry, you. I’m really struggling with this phrase, so tread carefully in dangerous waters.

Chris Budd: Well, what? What? What?

Producer Tommo: Somebody have a. You’re of the age. What did they, what do they say in, Monty Python Life of Brian? He’s not the Messiah, he’s just a Very naughty boy comes to mind right now.

David Lloyd: Well, okay, so Tom has proved himself not only to be tight, but also a pedant. So, all right. Swimming in dangerous waters with sharks and crocodiles. Is that explicit enough?

Producer Tommo: Yeah, I think. Swimming rather than treading. I never understood that phrase. Maybe I’m just not. Not smart enough.

Chris Budd: So, look, infidelity is an expression that describes when somebody is, unfaithful or disloyal to their partner, which is why it’s a slightly awkward subject. it’s commonly used to describe some sort of adultery or sexual encounter which the other partner isn’t aware of or hasn’t given permission to.

David Lloyd: You are indeed treading. Or if Tom would prefer swimming carefully.

Chris Budd: It’s a tricky word. It’s, going to mean different things to different people. And that’s kind of the point. for some couples, a drunken kiss at an office party. Christmas office party is the worst thing in the world and counts as infidelity. Other couples have a much more open relationship.

David Lloyd: I used to call them swingers back in the day.

Producer Tommo: That’s right, your generation with your car keys on the table. Shenanigans and all of that. Yeah. Gosh, how things might have changed.

David Lloyd: Yeah, I know when I was a kid, we didn’t have cars, so I wouldn’t have applied.

Chris Budd: the point is that different couples will set different standards to their relationship. So infidelity means different things to different people. That’s all I’m getting at here. To set the scene where things get really tricky, therefore, is when there are different standards between the two people in a relationship, which is something we will be coming back to.

Financial infidelity is where someone spends money that the other person doesn’t know

David Lloyd: Okay, so presumably then, financial infidelity is where someone does something with money that the other person doesn’t know about and.

Chris Budd: Yes. And that they wouldn’t want to have happened. So I could buy myself another record, for example, and Mrs. B wouldn’t know and wouldn’t mind.

David Lloyd: Okay, so it’s when couples lie to each other about the money that they’re spending.

Chris Budd: Yes, exactly. Although it’s not just spending. There’s lots of other different types of financial infidelity.

Producer Tommo: Yeah. I think what I see sometimes is, control. And this is where one person manages the family finances and doesn’t let the other have a say in the matter. now, don’t get me wrong. It’s important for one, often quite important for one person to manage the family finances. It’s all part of the divisions of labour and what can make a relationship work. I mean, I buy my What I do for a living, manage the finances in the business. But I do make sure my wife is involved, and kept informed. Because occasionally you can get the impression that it’s more about one person wanting to dominate the other rather than something that they’re in full agreement on when it comes to their finances.

Chris Budd: And they may have different values as well. So if one person is looking after the finances because that’s agreed, it’s their division of labour, but it turns out that they’ve got different values and they do it in a way that the other person wouldn’t like. It’s really important that those conversations are had. So this can lead to financial infidelity. Another example of infidelity could be hiding bad money behaviour. So for example, if somebody has a gambling habit that’s led to them losing money and that money’s been set aside for other things, then they may well try and hide the fact.

David Lloyd: Yeah, and addiction could be another one, an addiction to something expensive. It could be gambling, it could be alcohol, drugs, sex, even, loads of things that people could be addicted to that they don’t necessarily want to talk about. or it could just be going out and buying expensive things.

Chris Budd: I think spending habits is a big, you know, can be a big part of all of this. We’ve all heard kind of the jokes in the 1970s about the wife’s spending habits, or maybe it’s a midlife crisis and the husband’s got a new motorbike or something on those lines. As long as both parties know about the spending and agree to it. Although, you know, Susie’s more than welcome to have a little moan about my record buying habit every once in a while. That’s not what we’re talking about. As long as both parties know and agree and approve and as long as that spending isn’t causing financial difficulties, then it’s not going to be a problem. But if the spending is stopping other things from happening, then this could be a reason why someone keeps that spending a secret and it becomes financial infidelity.

Producer Tommo: I think one that I’ve seen in the past where couples have a different level of commitment to a financial plan. tried to think of an example. I’ve made this one up. I should stress I wouldn’t want clients thinking that I’m, telling our listeners all about them. but let’s say one of the couple works and the other has been a stay at home parent, which is quite common. but now the children, don’t need them so much anymore. So they have a plan for the working person to be able to stop working. But to do this they need a strict savings plan. This means cutting, back on unnecessary spending. They have different motivators to put this plan into action. So the stay at home parent doesn’t change their habits or reduce their spending because it’s not affecting them, because the plan isn’t aligned to what they’re trying to do. But this could quickly lead to resentment from the person who’s working because they’re seeing money being spent rather than saved for them to have an ability to stop working. So sometimes you can see this issue of the plan not aligning to both people and it being expressed to both of them that this is what needs to happen for one to succeed.

Chris Budd: And you can see that the other way around as well, that perhaps a savings plan turns out to be unachievable. But the stay at home parent doesn’t say anything about the weekly supermarket shop they do, which includes lots of expensive treats and nice things because they don’t want to cause a fuss and disappoint the working partner. So it can go both ways. That one.

David Lloyd: Yeah. So it’s financial infidelity isn’t always for nefarious reasons then sometimes couples might hide things from each other to protect them.

Chris Budd: Yeah, absolutely. And I’ve got a very personal story about this. Regular listeners will know that when I was in my mid-20s, my father went bankrupt. and it kind of ruined him as a man. He was never the same again. Very awful, awful period. But one thing I haven’t, I don’t think, shared before is that he kept his financial difficulties secret until the last minute. We didn’t know anything about it until it was too late. I can’t imagine the mental anguish he must have suffered in the months leading up to that final moment when he knew the game was up because he kept everything to himself until it couldn’t be kept to himself anymore. and he did that for good reasons. He wanted to protect us and especially protect my mum. But what actually happened is that my mum was really angry that he hadn’t included her in these problems. And when they lost the house and everything, I mean literally everything, and they moved to a rented flat, she felt that this was something that had just happened to her that she had no say over or involvement in and she was just very bitter for many years about it.

David Lloyd: Yeah, that’s not surprising and it’s interesting and I’m sure, as you say, I’m sure your dad’s motivations were largely there because he wanted to protect her. Also, probably, I would imagine there was a bit of shame going on. Oh, God, this situation. And, and we hear so many stories of this about people who do things which they kind of know about, but they get in so deep, they go, well, I can’t really turn back now, and I’ll carry on, and maybe something might turn up. And I think it just goes to show that really, I think particularly around money, it’s true in all areas of life, you know, but honesty with your partner, honesty with somebody else who is involved in it is clearly very, very important.

Chris Budd: Yeah.

Producer Tommo: As a shame. Such a strong word when it comes to money. Such a strong emotion sometimes.

Chris Budd: Maybe that’s a subject for future podcasts. Actually, just, you know, you said at the beginning of the podcast, David, about people sending in their, their stories or messages they’d like to send back to their younger self. And I have no doubt at all that if my dad could go back, he would have talked to my mom. So if there’s anybody listening to this podcast who’s struggling because they’ve got money worries, talk to your loved ones.

David Lloyd: Absolutely. Many of us go through life wishing perhaps we’d have done things a little bit differently. And the older we get, the more opportunity we have for those reflections. So, yeah, I think it’s very important we all make mistakes. You know, we all things up from time to time. Really important to learn from those mistakes and go, okay, I did a bad thing then. But actually I really must learn from that and make sure that I don’t do it again.

Chris Budd: Amen.

There are some unpleasant types of financial infidelity

So look, there are also some pretty unpleasant types of financial infidelity. So we should get into a couple of these. Revenge, for example.

David Lloyd: Revenge. So I’m, guessing that could be where someone perhaps couple has an argument and one of them says, ralph Goff and spend a load some money, blows the joint holiday fund on a set of golf clubs or whatever, that sort of thing.

Chris Budd: Yeah, yeah. Or worse, setting up a secret bank account, failing to declare assets in a divorce settlement. You know, there’s a lot of, A lot of, history around revenge and money.

David Lloyd: So we said we were going to have to tread or swim carefully through this. And indeed, so far we’ve got control. hiding bad habits, hiding addiction, different levels of commitment, trying to protect the other person, revenge. And these are all different types of financial infidelity.

Tom says couples need to have no judgement budgets to avoid financial infidelity

So I’m thinking the next question we need to ask is what can people do either to avoid getting into one of these situations or to avoid. Or what are they going to do if they discover that their partner has been guilty of financial infidelity?

Producer Tommo: M. So I might provide a tip of trying to not get in the situation. Maybe it might help towards that. And this is a personal one and it’s one that I share with a lot of couples actually, because I find it’s worked. Worked for me. But I think couples need to have no judgement budgets. I really do believe so.

Chris Budd: A no judgement budget. That’s a great expression. I love that.

Producer Tommo: Yeah, a no judgement budget. And it simply means that each partner has money they can spend on anything they want to spend their money on. So set amount, it might be a monthly budget, you can spend that on what you want. Clearly, both partners are often not going to have the same interests and their values might be slightly different. We’ve mentioned that before. So it’s important that they. And they’ll enjoy things that are different to each other. So it’s important that they’re able to do that without judgement. So for example, I spend quite a bit of my no judgement money on golf and days out at sporting events with, my friends. We went off to the cricket recently, Chris to Edgbaston. That was with my no judgement spends because Lindsay has zero interest in golf and zero interest in cricket. But I do. My wife, on the other hand, loves to go and watch live music and with her friends she likes. She went to go watch Beyonce with her sister recently. I’m not bothered about going to watch Beyonce. But the thing is, I don’t feel as though she’s spending our family budget on that. She’s spending her money on that. Likewise with my cricket and my golf, we have a sporting interest. So yeah, we find that this enables us to just. Yeah, the other one. Not to question what they’re doing with the things that they love.

David Lloyd: Yeah, I think that’s really important. And Gail and I do a similar thing. We have a joint budget for household things and for things that we do together, but we also have like our own money. and like you, Tom, I love golf and I love going to the cricket. But fortunately Gail enjoys coming to cricket as well. In fact, we went to law.

Producer Tommo: Brilliant.

David Lloyd: But it’s also important that we both have our own money and we can go, it’s all right, I’m going to spend that money because it’s mine and it doesn’t impact on any of the other spending. And obviously, as long as you’re not spending it on something nefarious I just think it’s really important to have that degree of financial independence.

Chris Budd: I love that, Tom. That’s a great phrase, a no judgement budget. I think maybe an extension of that could be for some couples where it’s important to actually set that budget to not just have a loose week and you can do your thing. I do it. But actually say, you know, especially if times are a bit tight where we’ve got young kids and money has to go only a certain distance, then that actually state how much we both have to spend.

Producer Tommo: I would actually argue that in order for it to work, it needs to have that because otherwise it will creep in going, oh, oh, your budget’s a bit bigger this, this, this month. Hey, look, you’re a perfect example of this, Chris. You love your records and you probably set yourself a budget within your finances as a, as a family, right? That’s my record plate. Well, the listeners on the pod, he’s, he’s going, so I do think setting a budget again chimes into this idea of that’s been set aside. You’re not creeping into, you know where I’m going with this. I think it’s important to set them up.

Chris Budd: So look, let’s move on to Tamsin because Tamsin’s great.

Tamsin Kane of Smart Financial offers advice on financial fidelity

I wanted to get some more thoughts and suggestions on Financial fidelity through an expert. And Tamsin Kane of Smart Financial is a financial planner, and she’s also specifically a specialist into divorce and the financial aspects of divorce. She produces a podcast called the Smart Divorce Podcast. So give that a listen. And she knows a lot about this subject of financial infidelity. She, she get. When I asked her for her thoughts on this, she started with a, with a comment, which I absolutely love, which is kind of overarching, and goes back to my father’s situation, which is whatever the reason, hiding any aspect of your life from your partner is going to lead to issues in the relationship. I thought, well, that’s a perfect starting point. You know, that’s a perfect overarching comment. She then very kindly offered another number of thoughts and tips on the subject. So I shared these out between the two of us. I’ll go first. First thing she says is to avoid financial infidelity, arrange regular money dates where all aspects of your family finances are discussed, including fun things you want to do in the future to keep it interesting, engaging.

David Lloyd: so if you do believe that your partner’s hiding or evading or lying about Banner, you’ve got to take action then if you want to continue that relationship and it’s going to work. So Tamsin suggests having a calm conversation to highlight your concerns. And. And when you’re having that conversation, avoid accusations and conflict.

Producer Tommo: M. Yeah. If you’re unable to resolve this directly, couples counselling could be a good option to try and understand the root cause of the issue and decide whether the problems can be resolved.

Chris Budd: Just a little addendum for me on that. Your financial planner, if they are experienced in coaching, might be able to help with that. If it’s just an initial, you know, an initial dig, I don’t think they’re qualified to go too deeply on it, but an initial look into relationship with money stuff, especially if they’ve been how they have financial wellbeing training, then Tamsin suggests that the partner responsible for the financial infidelity may need their own individual support, depending on what the cause is.

David Lloyd: Yeah. And if it’s found to be coercive control and financial abuse, you can get support through an app called Bright Sky. And depending on the stage the abuse is reached, it may not be safe to use your own phone. So you can ask a trusted friend or a family member or a colleague. And there’s a charity called Surviving Economic Abuse, which can also offer excellent support to people who are struggling with this.

Producer Tommo: You know, if the relationship can’t be recovered, you know, there’s a wide range of support available for separation and divorce. you know, as long as your safety is not at risk, take your time to research the options available for your divorce and select the right one for you. Not here suggesting that everyone should be going up and, you know, splitting up out of nowhere, but if you really are coming against some of this, some of these issues and really do need support, it’s out there. Seek it. you know, the Smart Divorce podcast has a wealth of information. We’ve already plugged it. You know, do your research, because the support is there. Yeah. And hopefully listening to some of what we said makes you start to realise what some financial coercion is and what is and isn’t healthy when it comes to how couples should be having a relationship, when it comes to money.

David Lloyd: Yeah, I, certainly my experience tells me that a, relationship will only really survive and thrive if you are entirely honest with each other. and all right, there might be one or two little things that we don’t want our partner to know about, but if it’s significant stuff, and money is, I think, a very significant thing in everybody’s relationship, and if you find that you are hiding things from your partner about money, or indeed you discover that they are hiding stuff from you, that’s not good news at all. and rather than perhaps putting your head in the sand and hoping that it might go away, my experience tells me that it doesn’t. Therefore, if you are experiencing any of these problems, sometimes it’s just tricky to face up with an issue that affects your own relationship. But I think it’s very, very important if you want that relationship to continue, that you are honest and open about it. And I think Tams advice about having a. Having a money date, putting the cards on the table, you know, putting the credit cards on the table and the bills on the table, I think it’s really, really important. so I hope you found this useful. It’s been a slightly less jolly one than the ones we have discussed, but it’s a really, really important issue. and I hope that you will be able to reflect on that, that you found it useful in some way and that we haven’t scared you away, and that you’ll join us again in the future for another one in our series of financial wellbeing podcasts.

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