Money and Meaning with Daniel Crosby

In this episode of the Financial Wellbeing Podcast, Chris Budd is joined once again by behavioural finance expert and author Daniel Crosby to explore the deeper relationship between happiness, money and meaning.

Daniel’s latest book, The Soul of Wealth, moves beyond traditional behavioural finance to ask how money can support a life that feels fulfilling, connected, and purposeful. Together, Chris and Daniel discuss comparison, gratitude, social influence, the role of luck and why understanding people’s stories matters just as much as understanding their finances.

This is a thoughtful and wide ranging conversation about using money well, not just managing it efficiently.

Welcomes & Introductions

Chris Budd – Founder of Ovation Finance, the Institute for Financial Wellbeing and author of the original Financial Wellbeing Books, you can view all three here

Fancy a chat with Tom Morris, Chartered and award winning Financial Planner at Ovation? Contact details here

This Episode – Money and Meaning

• Why behavioural finance has evolved to include happiness and meaning
• The dangers of comparing yourself to others and how reference points affect satisfaction
• The power of social influence on money habits
• How simple gratitude practices can boost wellbeing
• Making your future self feel more real to support better decisions
• The role of luck and why acknowledging it can encourage generosity

Tight Ass Tommo

Light-hearted money saving tips, guaranteed to make you smile and maybe think twice about your spending habits?

Interview with Daniel Crosby

The core conversation covers:

• The emotional story behind financial decisions and why empathy matters
• How money influences wellbeing beyond traditional financial outcomes
• Why your environment and role models are powerful predictors of behaviour
• Practical ways to build salience for your future goals
• Insights from The Soul of Wealth that people can apply in their daily lives

Conclusions from the guys

Reflecting on the key themes from the interview:

• Understanding money’s role in life requires looking beyond numbers
• Compassion and curiosity help uncover underlying financial motivations
• Small practices like gratitude and future visualisation can make a meaningful difference

 

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Transcript of Episode:

Introduction 

David Backwell:
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode in our long running series of Financial Wellbeing podcasts. My name is David Backwell. 

As ever, I’m joined by Chris Budd. Chris, tell us about yourself. 

Chris Budd:
Hello. I’m Chris Budd. I used to play in a band called Mange Deux and we’re reforming, David. This time to raise money for the local community farm and junior school. Our new name is Mange Deux Deux. 

David:
Very good. I remember a great fundraising gig you did for the local cricket club a few years ago, so I’ll look forward to that. 

We’re also joined today by Tom Morris. Tom, who are you? 

Tom Morris:
I’m Managing Director at Ovation Finance, a B Corp accredited, chartered, employee owned financial planning firm based in Bristol, and proud sponsor of this podcast. 

 

What are we talking about today? 

David:
Chris, what’s the topic for today? 

Chris:
We’re listening to a conversation with Daniel Crosby. Daniel has been on the podcast before. He has a new book out called The Soul of Wealth and we talked about money and meaning. 

David:
I remember his previous appearance, so I’m really looking forward to this. 

 

Joy Bait and positive stories 

David:
Last time, Chris mentioned the idea of a new segment focused on positive stories around money. Do you have something for us today? 

Chris:
I do. I’m calling it Joy Bait. It’s the opposite of rage bait. Instead of negative stories designed to provoke outrage, this is about positive things that improve financial wellbeing. 

I recently met a charity called Empire Fighting Chance. They work with young people in Bristol who may be struggling with mental health or employment, using non contact boxing. What really struck me is that they have built a very successful model and instead of protecting it, they give it away for free so other boxing gyms can replicate it. 

In a world where so much money is about making more money, this idea of openly sharing what works felt really powerful. 

David:
That’s a great example. If listeners have their own ideas for positive wellbeing stories, please do send them in. 

 

Tight Ass Tomo 

David:
It’s time for Tight Ass Tomo, where Tom shares a money saving tip. 

Chris:
I have a quick one first. I heard this from comedian Rhys James. Take a roll of raffle tickets to a nightclub and get a free coat from the cloakroom. 

David:
I should point out that this is theft. 

Tom:
I’m afraid mine isn’t much better. Someone suggested downloading lots of coffee loyalty apps and spacing your birthdays throughout the year to get free coffees. 

David:
I would like to state for legal reasons that I take no responsibility for these suggestions. Please do not use this podcast as an excuse to do anything illegal. 

 

Interview with Daniel Crosby 

Chris:
Daniel, thank you so much for joining us. 

Daniel Crosby:
Chris, my pleasure. 

 

Life in Atlanta 

Chris:
You’re based in Atlanta. How would you describe it? 

Daniel:
Atlanta is the capital of the southeastern United States. I grew up in Alabama, which has many wonderful qualities but also some challenges. Atlanta offers the warmth and culture of the South without some of the provincialism. They call it the city too busy to hate. 

 

From behavioural finance to wellbeing 

Chris:
Your background is behavioural finance, but your new book is about happiness and meaning. What prompted that shift? 

Daniel:
Behavioural finance began by studying what we do wrong, much like psychology originally focused on mental illness. Later came positive psychology, which asked what makes life good. 

I wanted to write something more hopeful. Yes, it’s important to understand mistakes, but it’s equally important to understand how money can support happiness, relationships, and generosity. 

 

Understanding behaviour before judging it 

Chris:
Is there a risk that focusing on positivity ignores the ways we get money wrong? 

Daniel:
I think we can hold both ideas. No one wakes up trying to be irresponsible with money. When you understand someone’s story, their behaviour almost always makes sense. 

I tell a story about a friend with most of his wealth invested in his employer. Logically it was a terrible idea, but emotionally it felt like loyalty. Once I understood that, I could help him hear the advice. 

Good intentions and poor execution often go together. 

 

Comparison and contentment 

Daniel:
Two things strongly predict financial contentment. One is how much wealth you have. The other is who you compare yourself to. 

If your goal is always more, it will never be enough. We have a duty to help people see that, not judgementally, but based on evidence. 

 

Social influence and financial beliefs 

Chris:
You talk about social contagion and shared beliefs. 

Daniel:
We are social creatures. We copy each other. That is our strength, but it can also lead us astray. 

Advertising, social media, and culture constantly tell us what should make us happy. We need to choose our role models carefully. 

Your environment predicts your behaviour better than your values. 

 

Gratitude and wellbeing 

Chris:
You write a lot about gratitude. Why does it matter so much? 

Daniel:
Simple gratitude practices can have a huge impact. Writing one thing you’re grateful for each day takes minutes and produces meaningful improvements in wellbeing. 

Writing a letter to someone who helped you years ago can boost happiness for weeks. I did this myself, thanking someone for a small kindness decades earlier. It mattered more than she ever knew. 

 

Making the future feel real 

Chris:
You discuss the concept of salience. 

Daniel:
Salience is how vividly you can imagine something. We can imagine bad outcomes very easily, but we struggle to imagine positive futures. 

If you make retirement or your future life vivid and specific, people make better decisions now. 

 

Faith and money 

Chris:
Your Christian faith comes through in the book. How does it shape your thinking about money? 

Daniel:
My reading of scripture suggests money is a tool, not a measure of worth. The love of money is corrosive, but money used to help others and deepen relationships can be powerful. 

The things that last are what you’ve learned and who you’ve loved. 

 

Luck and opportunity 

Chris:
You write about the role of luck in success. 

Daniel:
Luck plays a huge role. I only entered behavioural finance because of a comment my father made at the right moment. 

Effort matters, but opportunity matters too. Recognising that makes us more humble and more generous. If you’ve been lucky, try to be that luck for someone else. Send the elevator back down. 

 

Practical takeaways 

Chris:
If people take one or two things from the book, what would you hope they are? 

Daniel:
First, understand what you’re running towards, not just what you’re escaping. Many people retire and feel lost. 

Second, try the gratitude practices. They are simple, free, and powerful. 

 

Closing reflections 

David:
Chris, did anything particularly stand out for you? 

Chris:
The role of luck really struck me. Successful people rarely talk about it, but it’s vital to acknowledge. 

David:
I also liked the emphasis on choosing your role models. The people around us shape us more than we realise. 

 

Outro 

David:
That brings us to the end of this episode of the Financial Wellbeing Podcast. If you’d like to be notified of future episodes, please subscribe. 

For more information, visit the Financial Wellbeing website. We’d love to hear your thoughts. 

Thanks for listening. 

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