10 Tips to Master Moderate Success

In this episode the guys take a playful dive into what moderate success could look like for you. Chris shares ten practical tips for balancing ambition and wellbeing. With a dash of humour, but lots of actionable insights, this episode will help you define your personal version of success and build a life of financial and personal wellbeing. Ready to redefine success? Tune in now!

Welcomes & Introductions

David – he asks the questions listeners are undoubtably shouting!

Chris Budd – a vinyl record hoarder

Producer Tommo – financial planner at Ovation Finance

2024 UK Autumn Budget – a note on speculation v information

Want to work with calm financial planners? Have a chat with the Ovation Team

Whats on Todays Podcast?

A light hearted look at financial tips to be moderately successful – a tongue in cheek exploration

Tight Ass Tommo

Featuring David’s multi-vehicle insurance (add others to your policy and you may see changes in your premiums) and Producer Tommo’s regular reminder to look for free kids meals during school holidays.

Tip of the week – Go and watch tribute bands. All the songs you know, just as good, but a fraction of the price.

The Main Event – 10 Tips to Master Moderate Success

What does Chris mean by ‘moderately’?

1 – Own your success

Define what it is and when you will achieve it

2 – Say ‘yes’ to everything

For a period of time, give it attention to see if you like it.

3 – Take a nap

4 – Don’t have a plan!

Sometimes, going with the flow can be liberating. If all your time is planned, you will not be able to look at something interesting that pops up.

5 – Be a problem finder

6 – Be lucky!

Remember the role luck plays in success

7 – Don’t have BIG goals

8 – Celebrate the boring

9 – Don’t believe all you hear

10 – Always follow your passion . . . or don’t!

(cover image by Maxim Makarov on Unsplash)

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Episode Transcribe:

>> David Lloyd: Hello, lovely listeners, and welcome to what, astonishingly, is number 115 in our series of financial well being podcasts. I can see Tom Morris on the screen there. His head is actually exploding with the enormity of that statistic, whereas Chris Byrd is rubbing his face in his hands in despair as if to say, oh, my God, how much longer have we got to carry on churning these out? Well, quite a bit longer yet. Still to go, folks. Sorry about that. Anyway, sorry, I’m digressing. Even before we started. My name is David Lloyd. I’m one of the hosts of this podcast. It’s my role really to ask the questions that you’re all shouting at your, speakers as you’re listening to this. Go, why don’t you ask them this? And hopefully that’s what I do. I’m the guy that kind of doesn’t really know that much about money, although I’ve learned quite a bit, but through co hosting this podcast.

Tom Morris says too much information out there makes it difficult to make decisions

So fortunately, I’m here with two people who know an awful lot about money and about financial wellbeing. And the first of those, in no great order of seniority, is Chris. Bud. Chris, tell us about yourself.

>> Chris Budd: Please tell me about your. Ooh, crikey. So I live in Somerset with, my family and too many guitars. I play in bands. I buy and sell vinyl at markets, which I love doing. I started doing that a couple of years ago, about three years ago. Since when my own personal collection has increased by about 50% because I buy a collection and then I go, oh, I keep that one.

>> David Lloyd: And you’re not sounding as if you’re somebody who’s really very good with money. So why should we listen to your advice, Chris?

>> Producer Tommo: Well, actually, I’m gonna, I’m gonna, I’m gonna come in here, Chris, and defend you. If anyone listens to the previous podcast, they hear that he’s all about, he’s a freedom guy, he’s a joy spender. he gets it, he gets it. It’s okay. We can all be a bit different.

>> Chris Budd: Thank you, Thomas. that’s the end for me. I’m just going to pop off now and go to Discogs and buy some more records. Thank you.

>> David Lloyd: For me, I will probably have to pause the recording on several occasions. Your daughter delivers some, so. Right, that’s you sorted, Chris. Tom Morris. Who the hell are you?

>> Producer Tommo: Who am I? I am a very tired and weary charter financial planner at, Ovation Finance. And I’ll give you some context of why yesterday was the long awaited, first Labour budget. So we’re recording this on the 31st of October. And. But where the weariness comes from is obviously I had to watch the budget. I mean, that’s an ordeal in itself sometimes and try and pull together the various bits of information for our clients so we can help their financial planning. But the true weariness will make a bit of a point here and I hope this resonates with some listeners. So when this happens next time, journalists and the financial press are, not regulated. They can say whatever they like and steer their readership to make action and take action without any recourse available should they be wrong. And there’s been an awful lot of hearsay going around, an awful lot of rumour, speculation and fearmongering, quite frankly. And people have been making decisions based on that, thankfully, those who have got ovations, clients for example, would have been steered and told to keep calm and not knee jerk. But it really got a bit wearing, getting, you know, phone calls from people who’ve read the. Read the press. I know I’m going on a bit, I was a bit of a soapbox here, isn’t it? But it frustrated me and I just want to make the point that there are some great financial journalists out there giving great information, but there are some who like to ramp up the clickbait and put fear into your hearts.

>> David Lloyd: I think you make a very good general point. I don’t propose that we drill too much down into the budget now because by the time this goes out it’ll be old news, but I think generally you make a good point there about the way in which we as consumers kind of react on social media to things. And so much of the information that’s out there isn’t actually information at all, it’s speculation. and that just makes it very, very difficult for any of us to make an informed decision about anything, be it finance, be it politics, you know, or anything at all. Chris, you wanted to make a point.

>> Chris Budd: Yeah, well said, Tomo. Absolutely right. And, there’s one newspaper in particular who’s coming out with a lot of stuff which is politically motivated. It’s not financial really at all. they did a post today about are you rich? Cheque your salary against your neighbours with this handy tool. This is literally the opposite of financial well being.

>> David Lloyd: I do wonder, and you’ll correct me if I’m wrong, I do wonder if there’s a podcast in this in the future about the way in which the media, social media or the press media or TV influences the way we think about money.

>> Chris Budd: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

>> Producer Tommo: It’s huge.

>> David Lloyd: Find an expert to interview. Chris.

>> Producer Tommo: I wanted to. Oh, do you want to take this? Because I don’t want, I don’t want to paint a picture that there are some excellent, excellent financial journalists out there who are giving some brilliant information. But it’s, it’s the, when it gets on the front page and the editor gets their hands on it and it’s actually for clickbaits and it has political lean in is where I start to get very, very frustrated.

>> David Lloyd: Well, I am, I am a man that loves a robust political debate. However, as that’s not the point of this sense, now is not the time or the place.

>> Producer Tommo: And I would say it’s not about left. Right. It’s about next time. Make sure you’re acting on real information, not speculation, please. Listener.

>> David Lloyd: Absolutely.

>> Chris Budd: Information, not speculation. What a great slogan.

>> Producer Tommo: I didn’t, I didn’t even plan for that one. I just came now. And again I have moments.

>> David Lloyd: Chris, that, is going to be the title of a future podcast. Information not speculation. Great. Okay, let’s move on then.

Chris: We’re going to look at tips on how to be successful

Chris, what’s on today’s podcast?

>> Chris Budd: Well, today we’re going to have a kind of light hearted but also serious look, funnily enough, at the sort of tips you see on social media and places like LinkedIn, what have you. but also reading books about how to be successful and we’re going to offer our own version of that.

>> David Lloyd: Yeah, but in fact, you’re not calling it how to be successful, are you calling it how to be Moderately Successful? So is that a hint as to what your angle is going to be on this?

>> Chris Budd: It is. my previous book was the Four Cornerstones of Financial Wellbeing and the working title for it was how to be Moderately Successful. So I’ve written quite a bit and ideas on this. Look, there’s a lot of tips that you see on social media and from books about how to get rich, which are as much about making the person look important or heroic as they are about actually being successful. They often involve doing something extreme in order to be rich. So what we’re going to do is we’re, going to follow the theme of this podcast that we don’t believe the point of money is to accumulate it, but use it to be happy. So our tips are just going to be a little bit different.

>> David Lloyd: Excellent, look forward to that.

David: We should save this tip for the very end of the podcast

Before we do that though, we obviously have to get in the titas Tomo tip, which is, I think the main reason why people tune into this podcast. In fact, thinking about it, we ought to save this item to the very, very end of the podcast.

>> Producer Tommo: Not again. Never again, David. I’m, not having that. Absolutely fuming still about that because I.

>> David Lloyd: Just wonder how many people, once they get past this, just switch off.

>> Producer Tommo: Well, exactly. But then again, maybe if we put it at the end, like you said, they’re going to keep listening for this great tip. I don’t know.

Chris recommends multi vehicle car insurance to save money

>> David Lloyd: Anyway, before we get to your tip, you’re going to have to listen to one of mine. So this is my rather offbeat way of saving money. So we’ve got multi vehicle car insurance. Okay. We’ve got, my partner’s daughter’s car that we were insuring, although she’s now taken over herself. So that’s good. My partner has a car, I have a car and we have a motorhome as well. So it actually works out really well. We get a very good deal from our insurer who’s lv. I don’t know if I’m allowed to mention that, but they’re very, very good and they give us a good deal.

>> Chris Budd: You, can certainly imagine that if they give us a load of money for sponsorship, lv, they’re the best. And if anybody else is listening, do get in touch.

>> David Lloyd: anyway, so, my partner’s son, M. Tom, lovely boy, works as a vet. he wanted to borrow our motorhome for the weekend. and we were very happy to let him have it. He’s borrowed it before and although actually that time he lost a window, that’s another story. We were very happy to let him have it again. he came and picked it up and I gave him the rundown about what to do and what not to do and he drove off. And as he drove off, I suddenly thought to myself, oh, crikey, I haven’t added him to the insurance. So I rang up lv and the great thing that one of the reasons I like LV is whenever you speak to anybody, absolutely lovely, they answer the phone really quickly. They know what they’re talking about. They’re polite, they’re professional, they’re a great company to deal with. Anyway, so I spoke to this woman on lp. I said, all right. I didn’t actually say that he’d already left. I said, I just need to insure him for four days. And she said, yeah, no problem, and said, I’ll just work out a price for you. And we’ve done it before. The last time, it’s about 30 quid, so it’s nothing. So she tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. And then came back and said, right, okay, can you just hold the line a minute, I just need to cheque on something. And I thought, oh, hello, he’s done something, hasn’t. He’s had an accident, he’s got points on his licence that he’s not told us about and she’s going to come back and tell me that we can’t insure him and he’s already gone off in the van. so after about five minutes she came back and said, I’m really sorry about that delay. I said, right, okay, what’s the problem? She said, well it’s not really a problem. I’ve worked out a new price and it turns out as a result of him having that van for the weekend, we owe you 110 pounds. I said, I said, are you sure that’s right? She said, well that’s why I had to go and cheque, because it didn’t seem right to me at all. I said, well, how is it that by adding somebody to the insurance you give me money? She said, to be honest, I don’t know. But this is what the algorithm is telling us we have to do. So the consequence was that we ended up 110 pounds better off because he borrowed our van for the weekend. So this is a, fairly complicated one to apply, but if ever you’re thinking that you might want to save yourself a bit of money, try it on, see where it gets you.

>> Chris Budd: So the answer the last time I tip is let’s borrow David’s van for the weekend.

>> Producer Tommo: Got there in the end, Chris. Got there in the end.

>> David Lloyd: And make me money. Thoma, hopefully you’ve got something a bit more sensible than that.

>> Producer Tommo: I have a couple. And this is a reminder. You’ve heard this before. And again this has been recorded in the middle of half term, so not particularly useful. My wife took my children to Yo Sushi do this whole kids eat for free thing, which was lovely. So she ate and the kids ate their own body weight in whatever you eat at Yo Sushi. So they work with sushi, I’m assuming. so that was great. So just a quick reminder, parents always look out for these, these restaurants that offer, offer kids eat for free in particular in the, in the school holidays. the one is a bit tongue in cheek. The, the real Thai Astromer tip is go and watch cover bands, tribute bands rather than the real thing.

>> David Lloyd: Could you expand on that?

>> Producer Tommo: I wouldn’t mind because it means that you don’t have to go through places like Ticketmaster, and their ridiculous pricing policies and yeah, I went and watched. Pardon?

>> Chris Budd: It’s a good shout.

>> Producer Tommo: It is a good shout. I remember earlier on this year I took my dad for his birthday, we bought him tickets to go watch ACDC cover band in the fleet at the Fleece in Bristol. You two might know it well. So 500 people in there was a good atmosphere. The band were brilliant. Obviously it’s not Angus up on stage but it’s a guy who’s acting like Angus and it was just really good fun. It’s all the tunes that we remember growing up and listening to in the car when we were driving with my dad and we had a great time and it cost probably a tenth of the price if that.

>> David Lloyd: Yeah, I’m a big fan of a cover band actually. I saw many years ago now the Australian Pink Floyd, what was the Colston hall is now the Beacon in Bristol and they were indistinguishable from the real thing and also the bootleg Beatles as well who I’ve seen a couple of times actually. And again, they’re very, very good because again it’s songs we’re familiar with, music we’re familiar with and providing they’re done well then yeah, which most of.

>> Producer Tommo: The time they are. There’s some fantastic musicians out there, have a few drinks, have a good time and listen to the music you love. But at ah, literally a fraction of the cost.

>> Chris Budd: I’ve just worked something out. What’s going on here? What’s going on here is David wants to get cheaper insurance so he’s mentioning lv. Tomo clearly wants to get free food so he’s mentioning Yo Sushi. This is a way to try and attract sponsors that will appeal to you, isn’t it? So I’d just like to tell you a story about Rickenbacker guitars.

>> David Lloyd: It’s all about product placement, this podcast.

>> Chris Budd: And clearly I’ve only just 115 in and I just noticed what you two have been doing all along.

>> Producer Tommo: Hey look, if the Fleece in Bristol want to chuck me a few a few tickets to some upcoming gigs, you feel free.

>> Chris Budd: And if looking back at guitars want me to try their latest model by sending me one, I’ll be very happy to give it a review on the podcast.

>> David Lloyd: Excellent. Okay, so there’s your money saving tips. Watch a cover band and borrow my band for the weekend. Onto today’s topic, how to be moderately successful.

Chris: We see a lot of motivational tips on social media

So Chris, I just Want to go back to my earlier question, which you kind of sidestepped? Can you define more clearly what you mean by moderately?

>> Chris Budd: Okay, so, for a long time now, articles, and books with titles like the Top Tips of the Rich and Successful have been very popular. We also see a lot of motivational comments on social media, usually from wealthy people offering you their tips from the top things you can change in your life in order to be more like them. And I gotta be honest, I find these tips rather exhausting. They usually involve getting up at a ridiculously early time of day, eating something disgustingly healthy, and making lists. Lots and lots of lists.

>> Producer Tommo: I think I’m gonna get triggered in this episode. yeah. God, I’m trying to think of the things that really irk ah, me.

>> Chris Budd: And there are quite a few.

>> Producer Tommo: Well, ah, yeah, there are quite a. I think what irks me about it is it’s so, well, this is what worked for me, so it must work for you kind of attitude. So great example, the 5A hashtag 5:00am Club cracking is even a hashtag 4:00am Club. Well, that’s a disaster for us night owls to think that that’s the only way we can be successful. the other one is cold showers. I mean, there’s a small pleasure in having a nice hot shower is where I get most of my ideas from, believe it or not. that might not work for you. So I’m not suggesting the lifestyle tip for you. and the other one is, every time I see like a. This is how you can shave five years off your life or whatever, you know, you get on the Twitter algorithms, and it tells you about how to live happily. First thing is quit alcohol. No small pleasures in life as a glass of red wine or a beer with my buddies. Like, come on, stop it.

>> David Lloyd: I saw a great quote from Billy Connolly recently who says people are always going on about eating brown bread. And he says, I love white bread. People say, well, it’ll take time off your life. He said, well, I’ve worked out what’s it going to be a week if I spent an entire life eating white bread? Well, I just live a week shorter than I would have done if I’d eaten brown bread. He said, I reckon it’s a good trade off.

>> Chris Budd: I saw a cartoon little while ago of the doctor saying to a patient, now if you quit alcohol, run every morning, get up at 5:00am and only eat pulses and grains, you’ll live to 90. And the patient says back, well, if I don’t eat, if I only drink alcohol, get up at 5am and eat pulsing greens. Why would I want to live to 90?

>> Producer Tommo: Very true. I must stress, for some people it works. But I think that’s the point almost, isn’t it? Is that being shoved down your throat, that that’s what works, and it might not for you.

>> Chris Budd: And look, the point here of what I’m getting at is that, their objective is do these things in order to be successful and rich. Their definition of success is almost always money. And I don’t live my life like that. I don’t live my life to accumulate wealth. So I’m not rich. But I do, however, consider myself to be moderately successful, by which I mean successful by my definition. So what I would like to present in the style of those top 10 tips of the rich and successful are my top 10 tips for being moderately successful, by which I really mean happy.

>> David Lloyd: Brilliant. Bring it on. I suspect Tom and I are going to have a lot to say about these as well, but, kick us off. What’s the first one please, Chris?

Tyler: What is your definition of success, Tomo and David

>> Chris Budd: Okay, so social media, in particular is full of people who promote themselves as having the answer to how to be successful, which usually involves some kind of wealth. The trouble is I don’t think they’ve asked the right question in the first place, which is what is successful? So my first tip is own your success. It’s your success. So you get to define what it is, and, therefore you get to decide when you are successful. So one of my definitions of success, for example, is flexibility of time, being able to choose what I do during the day. So what about you two? What about you, David? What’s your definition of success?

>> David Lloyd: Well, certainly flexibility of time is one as well, because it’s easier for me now that I’m pretty much retired. I’ve got kind of more time to do the sort of things that I want to do. But for me, and I had a good think about this, is happiness. You know, I’ve had, like all of us, I’ve had ups and downs in my life, times in my life where my life’s been a bit difficult. And actually now it’s not my life. I have to say, now is as well balanced and fulfilled as it’s pretty much ever been. And, that’s because, well, it’s due to a lot of reasons, some of them external, some of them internal. But ultimately the thing that I feel now more than I’ve ever felt pretty much in my entire life is happy. I feel happy. And for me, that is the main measure of my success. If I can wake up in the morning feeling happy, enjoy the things that I do during the day, apart from the irritating things that still come along and go to bed happy, then that for me is the main benchmark of my success.

>> Chris Budd: Love it. Love it. Tomo?

>> Producer Tommo: Yeah, I think can I have three things? And I think you’ll understand because of where I am at this point in my life. I think the first one is I do want to provide a comfortable life for my young family. So there’s an element of financial aspect, no comfortable life. Because the second one is I want to provide my kids with my time. So, you know, I think if you focus too much on the financial side, are you giving your children time? They’re only young once. and, I think the third one is whatever I’m doing, I’m, being helpful and I think about as a father and professionally, I can resonate.

>> Chris Budd: With that because one of my professional definition of moderately successful is impact, having a positive impact on the world. and I do lots of stuff which I don’t, excuse me, don’t get paid for, or get paid moderately for. And I’m happy to do them because I can see them having positive impact. So, yeah, love it. Thanks, Tyler.

Tip number two is to say no to everything for a period

Right, I’m m aware we’ve got 10 tips to get through, so let’s go on to.

>> David Lloyd: Right, okay, let’s crack on then. Tip number two, please.

>> Chris Budd: Tip number two is say yes to everything.

>> David Lloyd: Now, I thought the general business guru type tip is to limit what yourself, what you allow yourself to get involved in. So, but you’re now m saying no, say yes to everything for a period.

>> Chris Budd: So most successful entrepreneurs will tell you they pick and choose how they spend their time. It’s true. I read one quote on LinkedIn from one business guru, from one wealthy entrepreneur who said, every time you give your awareness to something you’re not interested in or aren’t able to control, you lost a battle.

>> Producer Tommo: It’s such black and white language. There’s no nuance there. How do you know you’re not interested in it unless you actually give it a little bit of a, little bit of a try?

>> David Lloyd: Yeah, now that’s very true. And that chimes in with something that I feel very strongly. And it kind of goes back to the point you made at the very start of the podcast, Tom, about the very, the binary nature of a lot of our debate at the moment and the lack of nuance in our debate at the moment. So a thing is either Good or it’s bad, it’s black or it’s white. And I think sometimes we’re missing out on the grey areas in between the messy areas sometimes, which make from my point of view life a lot more enjoyable.

>> Chris Budd: Yeah, that could be, another great title for podcast, Investigating the messy areas. Like that, producer Tammy, write that one down. We could do something with that.

>> Producer Tommo: I just think about this more. It just feels as though that everything you do has to be highly successful.

>> Chris Budd: Yeah, exactly. Look, it can be good advice. It can be good advice to say no to things that aren’t going to make you happy. but as you say, the lost battle sentiment implies that everything you do must point to becoming highly successful. Sometimes I just like to have a bit of fun. so for periods, sometimes I decide to say yes to everything that comes my way. especially in fact if it’s something I’m not able to control. There’s every possibility you will waste some of your time, but sometimes it might just be the glorious, most glorious waste of time that you have ever spent.

>> David Lloyd: Do you know what I think that’s really interesting. I think sometimes an unexpected door opens in front of you and you think, well, should I walk through it? Should I say yes? And I give you a case in point. So I was in my early 50s, my wife at the time was very poorly talking about difficult times in my life. That was, that was one of them. And you’ll know this Chris, because you knew me then, and life was sometimes a bit of a slog and I’d had a successful career as an actor which I’d kind of largely given up so I could stay at home and look after my wife. I was still doing all right as a writer, but I kind of felt the balls closing in on me a little bit. And then all of a sudden I was presented with an opportunity which I’d kind of created for myself. However, I still had to make the decision whether or not to walk through the door that had opened, which was to go and work for Bristol City Football Club in an entirely unconnected, role of anything that I’d ever done before. I’d worked in the arts as a self employed creator all my life and suddenly there I was as an opportunity on a part time basis to go and work as a supported liaison officer and stadium announcer for Bristol City.

>> Chris Budd: But David, I think that, let’s just, if I can just pause there you were the guy that all the Bristol City football fans saw down on the pitch with the Microphone talking to them before the game in half time, weren’t you? Amongst other things.

>> David Lloyd: So it was an outward public facing role which did tie into my, you know, showy offiness, if you like, and my acting background. But actually when I had the email offering me that role, it was like I could have quite easily said, well, hang on a minute, I’ve never done anything like that before. I don’t really know what I’m doing. But in fact I thought, oh, yeah, that’s exactly what I need now. I need something different. I need something to get me out of the house. I need a new challenge. And that, I think was as much to do with the time of life I was at and what was going on in my life at the time. But certainly I never regretted it. I had nine very happy years there. I was glad to leave when I did because it had kind of got on top of me a little bit. However an opportunity presented it myself, I could have said no and I never would have known the, you know, the great fun that I had largely doing that job. So, yeah, if in doubt, say yes. Big fan of that.

>> Chris Budd: Love it. Great.

Getting up at 5am Works for people whose body clock makes them morning people

Tip number three. Tomo mentioned hashtag 5:00am club earlier on. there’s often an element of machismo about the tips we see online. They almost always come from men.

>> David Lloyd: For example, look, I’m sorry to go on about this again. Such a silly thing to promote as being a, a good thing. I mean, you know, Getting up at 5am Works for people whose body clock makes them morning people. You know, Tomo’s not one. I’m certainly not one. Not everyone works well in the mornings.

>> Producer Tommo: No, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head by saying I’m not one. Chris knows this all too long.

>> Chris Budd: Oh, I’ve worked in an office with Tom. Oh, I can confirm he is not a morning person.

>> Producer Tommo: Absolutely well recorded. We start recording this at 10 o’clock. That was borderline. You imagine what it’s like. I talk about having a young family. You imagine what it’s like not being me and not a morning person with a young family. It’s a bit of a bear with a sore head most mornings.

>> Chris Budd: My tip is actually going to go one step further. and we touched on this earlier on, before we started recording because I’m now going to address one of the great social taboos left in the uk. I’ve done something I’ve done all my life, but only in the last few years have I admitted m it publicly.

Tip number three. Take a nap. That’s tip number three, is take a nap

Tip number three. Is take a nap.

>> David Lloyd: Do you know what? I am a big fan of the nap, but it’s interesting. In Spain, siesta, yeah. In France, la siesta, it’s a kind of relaxing thing that you do. You want to chill out. And it’s promoted as being something that everybody does, have a nice lunch, have a siesta, relax over here. It’s a power nap.

>> Chris Budd: Exactly, exactly.

>> David Lloyd: It cannot be something that we just do because we’re a bit tired and we enjoy it. It’s got to be something that we do because it makes us stronger and better and more competitive.

>> Producer Tommo: I never thought of it like that. That’s a great point. Sounds like a silly bag advert.

>> David Lloyd: No, new improved power nap. Yeah, but I’m a big fan of a nap. yeah, big fan.

>> Chris Budd: It just takes 25 minutes. You know what I do is I set my alarm for 35 minutes. I go on my phone and play a game or something. When I drop off, 20 to 25 minutes of shut eye. And it’s like clearing out the inbox of your brain.

>> David Lloyd: Yeah, it’s interesting. So I. To me, that’s a little bit too long. and so what for me, 15 minutes max is fine, and sometimes 10 minutes, but. And I’ll do it. if back in the day when I used to work a lot more than I do now, I’d be sitting in my chair here, typing away at the computer. I’d get to usually about half past two, three o’clock, not long after lunch, and I’m thinking, bit tired now. I wouldn’t get up and go and sit in another chair. I’d literally sit here, and just kind of close my eyes and then 10 minutes later wake up going, great, feeling refreshed now, and crack.

>> Chris Budd: I believe, I believe it was Winston Churchill that used to hold, some keys in his hand. And when he went too deep into his sleep, he would drop the keys and that would wake him up. So that was his way. So, anyway, there we go. That’s. That’s tip number three, is take a nap.

>> David Lloyd: Great. Fully on board with these tips so far, Chris. What have you got next?

Part of being moderately successful is to not have a plan

>> Chris Budd: Sometimes I see a particularly trite phase which does irritate me. One successful entrepreneur on LinkedIn posted the expression, plan for tomorrow, today. I mean, yeah, I mean, what does that actually mean?

>> Producer Tommo: Oh, of course. You got a plan for tomorrow, today. This is exactly what planning is. You can’t plan for yesterday.

>> David Lloyd: Can you plan for tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, retrospectively?

>> Producer Tommo: So basically saying, make a plan I’m just saying make a plan.

>> David Lloyd: Yeah, so wins the award for stating the bleeding obvious.

>> Chris Budd: So these sorts of tips are always trying to get people to be in control of everything. and therefore we should always have a plan. So my tip number four to be moderately successful is this. Every once in a while, don’t have a plan. See what happens.

>> David Lloyd: So part of your plan of being moderately successful is to not have a plan?

>> Chris Budd: Exactly. Genius, isn’t it?

>> Producer Tommo: Do you know what? I will. I reckon sometimes organised fun can be the least fun thing in the world. So when I go out with, my mates who book summon in advance and we have a loose, a really loose sort of, where we go, it’s usually around a sporting event, but the rest of it would be pretty loose. Why? Because we just go with where our mood takes us. And all right, some nights that means that we all can’t make a decision and we end up, fluffing, our lines a little bit. But you know what, sometimes just going with the flow can be really liberating. Especially when so many other parts of our lives are planned to the nth degree. I, only have to look at my work diary to know that,

>> David Lloyd: That is so true. Now we’re recording this on Halloween and I’m reminded of a time many, many years ago when my son and his cousins were small. They were, I don’t know, five or six or seven, can’t quite remember. And we were down in Cornwall for half term. It was Halloween and we suddenly realised it was Halloween and we thought, oh, we better do something, hadn’t we? And my sisters in law, who were incredibly creative, started making like jellies with grapes in like eyeballs. They constructed a, a witch on a pulley that when you pulled a string it flew past the window. I took all the kids up to the, while they were setting it all up, I took all the kids up to the churchyard as it was getting dark and told them scary stories which really freaked them out. And unbeknownst to me, my brother in law had followed us and was up in the graves making howling noises which terrified me as well. And then we went back and we had all the food and the adults had a few drinks. And those kids now who are all in their mid to late 30s, still talk about that as being the best Halloween they ever had. And it just came from nowhere. We just created it because we allowed it to happen.

>> Chris Budd: Love it. Love it. In business terms, I once was given a great piece of advice by Somebody I used to deal with. he had a big circular dining room table in his house. Huge. And it was always covered with paperwork. Because he worked from home, he was hugely disorganised. And his advice was, don’t plan too much because if you fill your diary for the following week, you won’t have any free time in which you can react to interesting things that might come up.

>> David Lloyd: Wow. Yeah, very good, very good.

Chris says that many clients just want to be listened to now

Well, let’s have tip number five then.

>> Chris Budd: Please, Chris, be a problem finder.

>> David Lloyd: Okay, I’m just going to pause for thought there because I’m not sure that I know exactly what you mean by that.

>> Chris Budd: Our education system, teaches us how to solve problems. That’s what exams are. You get given a problem, a set of information, and you have to find the answer. But often in life what we need are not answers, but help in being clear on what the question is in the first place.

>> David Lloyd: Right. Can you give us an example of that?

>> Producer Tommo: Yeah, I think I can. I see it professionally, helping clients understand their futures. I think what Chris describes is a big issue with financial advisors, certainly those that are coming through, and I do quite a lot of mentoring of financial advisors. They’re trained to gather information about a client, then produce a solution in some form of recommendation, usually involving a financial product such as a pension and investment. And that’s all their exams are all based around, is, you know, solving this technical solution. But in fact, from my experience, many clients just want to be listened to now. For them, creating a, financial plan means working out what might be possible for them in the future, working out what’s important to them, working out what makes them tick. It’s why a good example is all the advisors at Ovation. Of course they’re technically qualified, got all of that sorted so we can help the financial product bit. But they all also have training, and coaching skills, so they’re able to ask good questions and be good listeners.

>> Chris Budd: And listening is got to be one of the most underappreciated skills in business. I think. So many people approach a situation with the, idea that their role is to find the solution and they dive in before they’ve really understood the problem. Or, maybe they do find a solution, but it’s based upon their values and experiences, not the clients.

>> Producer Tommo: Absolutely. And I’ll tell you what someone else is. When you actually listen and try to get to the bottom of what somebody’s trying to achieve, you often it’s easier to make decisions or give advice or go in a certain way. You don’t feel as though you’re on the fence thinking, oh, I’ve got all these options in front of me. Because the longer you spend trying to really work out what somebody wants, the more clearer it becomes the route that you need to follow.

>> David Lloyd: I think that’s really interesting. I mean, I mean, you know me, and I’ve never been somebody who’s backward in putting forward an opinion about stuff. and, you know, quite frankly, I can be quite gobby. However, I’ve realised the older I’ve got that actually sometimes not saying anything is more powerful than feeling that I have to step in and fill a void in a conversation. And actually just stopping and listening to what the other person has to say or perhaps isn’t saying is a lot more effective sometimes than just going, oh, I know what to say now, I know what to say now.

>> Chris Budd: And also, just generally in people doing your job, you know, solving problems feels like work. I think what’s more fun is finding the problems in the first place.

>> David Lloyd: Wow. Very good. Okay, we’re halfway there.

Success does require luck, Tomo says

Tip number six, please, Chris, be lucky. That’s not a tip. No.

>> Chris Budd: Okay, it’s not a tip. but I just think that it’s important to remember the role that luck plays. When I hear successful people talk about how they got where they are, they might mention the daring comment which sealed the big deal, or the boldness in speaking to somebody at an event or something. They very rarely acknowledge the huge part that luck will have played.

>> Producer Tommo: Oh, I don’t often like to disagree in these podcasts because it kind of throws off message, but I think it might be a little bit harsh. Maybe from my own experience, you know, we deal with quite a few wealthy individuals at, Ovation.

>> David Lloyd: Well, as a client myself, define wealth. I mean, I may not be financially wealthy in happiness terms. I’m a billionaire.

>> Chris Budd: You’re moderately successful.

>> Producer Tommo: Yeah. Of course, there’s many different, shapes and sizes of clients that we work with because no one size fits all in human beings. But we do have a number of, I think we would consider very wealthy individuals. and you talk to them about how they got where they are. And to be fair, they, they often will tell you how lucky they have been to get there. And some of them actually, over egg, how lucky they’ve been.

>> Chris Budd: I think sometimes that’s a, That’s a fair point, Tomo. but then they aren’t writing books or articles telling people the secrets of their success. That’s what, that’s what I’m getting at. look, I’m not suggesting that achieving whatever our definition of success is, does not require hard work, talent and diligence. Of course it does. Success does require luck. But you do need to be working when it comes to knocking.

>> David Lloyd: Yeah. I’d just like to add, again, my own little caveat to this. I kind of get where you’re coming from, Chris, but what about Gary Player’s comment? The more I practise, the luckier I get. I can remember a time, and I may have said this on a previous podcast, so apologies if I have. Many years ago, my dad said to me, he said, you know what the thing is about you, Dave? He says, whenever your back’s against the wall, something always turns up. You know, you’re very lucky in that regard. And for years I thought that was true. And then actually I realised that that wasn’t the whole story. In fact, what happened was, whenever my back was against the wall, I pulled my finger out and thought, well, I better do something about this. And therefore, I worked hard and dealt with the situation that I found myself in. And in that sense, you know, helped to create my own luck.

>> Chris Budd: Yeah.

>> Producer Tommo: Is there an element of. Are you familiar with survivorship bias?

>> David Lloyd: I don’t know.

>> Producer Tommo: So it’s this idea that these people who are writing these, look at me, I did it, I was amazing. And failed to acknowledge the luck they had. They’re the ones who survived. They’re the ones who actually got to the point where they were successful because there are plenty of people along the way that aren’t. And sometimes acknowledging that luck along the journey makes people realise that, okay, it’s bumpy. Sometimes it’s just a door that opens that I was fortunate enough to experience. The people at the top are the survivors and have had luck along the way. And sometimes when you’re. I think it means that when you’re met with, a time when you aren’t quite succeeding, whatever that means that, you know what, that’s okay, that happens, and you might not have had that bit of luck, but keep, Keep going.

>> Chris Budd: I guess. I guess if you acknowledge the luck, then you also, when things don’t go well, you don’t take it all to heart and blame yourself so much. Maybe.

>> Producer Tommo: I think there’s something in that. Yeah.

>> Chris Budd: Yeah.

>> David Lloyd: Very good. Right. Okay, let’s move on. Tip number seven, please, Chris.

Tip number seven is don’t have big goals. And I assume you don’t literally mean don’t

>> Chris Budd: Tip number seven is don’t have big goals.

>> David Lloyd: Do you know what? I’m beginning to spot a thread here. See what you’re doing? You’re giving tips with the opposite to what we so often hear and you are being, and this will come as no surprise to people that know you, deliberately, rather obtuse. And I assume you don’t literally mean don’t, don’t ever have big goals.

>> Chris Budd: No, of course not. And I did say at the start, there’s a little bit tongue in cheek, these, these tips. I don’t mean them that literally, but I do mean them a bit literally. Look, let me illustrate this tip about don’t have big goals with a quick anecdote. I was, I do some coaching of people, some business coaching. And I was coaching the owner of a manufacturing business. He was very stressed. He wasn’t seeing much of his family. It was working weekends. and his business advisor had set him a big goal to get the profit of the company to 30% of turnover. At the time, the profit was only 23%.

>> Producer Tommo: Inverted commas only. just to be clear, that sounds pretty all right to me.

>> Chris Budd: The company was turning over about a million pounds, which means after his drawings, there was £230,000 left in the bank at the end of each year. So I suggested to him that that was a pretty good result and he could probably slow down a little bit. And he just kind of looked at me blankly. He hadn’t considered the possibility of not working that hard because he’d been so totally focused on a goal that A, he didn’t actually need and B, was set by somebody else.

>> Producer Tommo: I think you’re on something here more than. Rather than the big goals you’re against, it’s actually goals that are not related to what your definition of success is. And often goals are linked to financial outcomes or financial, figures. Well, yeah, there might be how you might measure how you get to what successful means to you. But, you know, I could think of a great example, is that person was in front of me at ovation. I would be drilling down and said, where’s that 30% come from? You know? Well, that’s what I need. Okay, have you proven that? And this is where things like cash flow planning comes in, where you can actually show. Oh, hang on a second. You’ll be absolutely fine on that. 23% to meet the things that are important to you. How do you feel now? And it might well be, and I suggest, probably is the case here, a lot more relief. Thank you very much. I’ll stick to what I’m doing because I look so I may be moderately successful to that individual that gave me the 30% target. Hey, presto, I’m successful. In my own definition of it.

>> Chris Budd: Amen. Amen to that. So the message is just be careful what you choose as your goals. And if you do choose something big and audacious, make sure that trying to reach it doesn’t get you too stressed. Because if it does, maybe something smaller and more achievable might be better.

>> David Lloyd: Yeah, too much stress has definitely not got a little bit of stress. I think sometimes is motivational and it kind of helps you get stuff done. But anything that’s getting you to the point where you’re on the verge of a nervous breakdown, leave it well alone. So, three tips left. Number eight.

>> Producer Tommo: Really? There’s still three to go.

>> David Lloyd: Sorry. Don’t worry about it, Tom. Everyone will have switched off now you’ve done your titles. Tom. O tip.

>> Chris Budd: Right number, whatever that means.

8. Let’s celebrate the boring. Whatever happened to just doing a good job and being happy

8. I want to challenge another assumption, especially a business assumption. There’s one word that gets used all the time, which is growth. Every entrepreneur wants to get involved with a high growth startup business and they even, they even give them cool names like unicorns.

>> Producer Tommo: Cool name, isn’t it? I’m only laughing because that’s what my 4 year old daughter loves. it’s, you know, I go start up businesses.

>> David Lloyd: Wow, she’s a very advent.

>> Producer Tommo: you know, it’s not just in business though, is it? Social media is full of people boasting about the amazing things they’ve achieved. Although it’s very doubtful that these are always true. I call it the Instagram Philtre or even the LinkedIn philtre. Whatever happened to just doing a good job and being happy? That point about be helpful, just be helpful.

>> Chris Budd: Exactly. Let’s celebrate the boring.

>> David Lloyd: Well, nothing boring about being happy, but I mean, is that your tip? Celebrate the boring?

>> Chris Budd: Yes, it is. There’s nothing wrong with trying to achieve things. Of course there isn’t. But it’s also important to appreciate where you are, how you got there and what is around you.

>> David Lloyd: Well, that’s always wise advice because we spend so long rushing around that finding a moment to reflect and appreciate is great for our well being.

Chris: Have wealthy and well connected parents is the secret to success

>> Chris Budd: Okay, next, I want to come back to something that Thomas said earlier. and so for tip number nine, I want to say don’t believe all you hear.

>> Producer Tommo: Don’t believe all. Something that’s been, going through my mind a bit here. regards. Just really understanding where this person has come from who’s dispensing this advice because you never hear this. My top tip, the real secret to my success is this. Have wealthy and well connected parents And I can’t help but think of, again, not going political. Actually, I’m not going to mention the person who’s a presidential candidate as we speak. I don’t know the, the election results will be known post this, but it was a. Well had well connected and wealthy parents. And you never hear people talk about that. He was success, he was successful. You’ve had that head start and we’re.

>> Chris Budd: Not even worried, we’re not even saying it’s wrong. Just acknowledge it.

>> Producer Tommo: You know, that’s the point. It’s okay. We are. Whatever circumstance you were born into is out of your control. So, you know, you can have some hang up on having success because you had this head start. Just acknowledge it, you know, rather than trying to dispense the same advice to somebody who doesn’t have that advantage is a little unfair if you don’t acknowledge that you did.

>> Chris Budd: Yeah. And the advice that they give is going to be skewed to their experiences and therefore not relevant to you. There was a phrase about, somebody who owned an airline which was, they did incredibly well. They built a 200 million pound value airline and all they had to start with was £50 million. So look, just be careful of the advice you hear from people because sometimes it isn’t always related to how you are living your life.

>> David Lloyd: Yeah. Didn’t we do a podcast on this?

>> Producer Tommo: Yeah, yeah, we did actually. There’s always, it’s like they say, there’s always a tweet, there’s always a podcast. Now we’ve done 115. we did actually it was episode, 83. Because I’ve been looking through and scrolling because this is all resonating with stuff we talked about and looking at it. It’s the dangers of social comparison. And that was with our old friend Neil Page.

>> David Lloyd: Excellent. Okay, Chris, bring us home. Let’s have the big finale.

My final tip on how to be moderately successful is this always follow your passion

Tip number 10.

>> Chris Budd: Well, tip number 10 is unequivocal. My final tip on how to be moderately successful is this always follow your passion or don’t always follow your passion.

>> David Lloyd: Well, which is it? Clever clogs.

>> Chris Budd: I see lots of wealthy people tell you that they became successful by following their passion. But I’ve also seen wealthy people say this is nonsense and that you should instead find a job that pays well and then find your passion within the job.

>> David Lloyd: Yeah, I kind of feel both of those are, you know, are valid in a way. For me, my, you know, the moderate success that I’ve achieved came from my passion, came from a passion to Be creative. I never really knew what I wanted to be at school. I just knew that I like writing and performing and, and, and, and after a few false starts that’s what I decided to do. And it was that passion, I think that pushed me through and led me towards yeah, the, the moderate success that I’ve had.

>> Producer Tommo: I think about my background, my passion. When I was a young man and I did a degree totally unconnected to what I do for a living. I did degree in sport, sports, science and because I loved, I just loved learning about the human body, how it reacted under stress, the psychology that was behind all. It was just a myriad of things I could learn about the human body doing this degree and it was really fascinating subject. But long story short came came out of doing my degree and I kind of fell into financial services, which is a common message you often hear from people who go into financial planning. But what I quickly discovered is that it was an avenue. And I’ll go back to what I talked about earlier on about how I define success. It was an avenue for me to be helpful, for me to help people plan to achieve whatever they’re trying to achieve and hopefully make, make them a bit happier. yeah. And have impact. Yeah. And, and I think I soon realised that that was the thing that, that I was more passionate about was the helpful element. So I found it within, within that job. Don’t get me wrong, I quite like the nerdy technical examine part as well at the time.

>> Chris Budd: so that your example, you two are both ah, perfect examples of both of these. So the tip really is this. Look, if you do have a passion that can be turned into a business or a career, follow it.

>> David Lloyd: Great.

>> Chris Budd: To do otherwise is likely to make you unhappy. But if your passion isn’t something that can make you a living, do that as a hobby, then do a job which you think looks interesting and find the passion within it. We have a phrase for this, don’t we Tomo?

>> Producer Tommo: We do Chris, we do. And I think this is perfect for this whole episode. It’s no thyself know what works for you, know what makes you tick, know what success means to you and follow that.

>> David Lloyd: Excellent.

Financial Wellbeing podcast features advice on life and financial wellbeing

Well, we’ve had a good laugh today boys, haven’t we? I’ve really enjoyed that. Those are very thought provoking tips we had there from Chris that I think has sent us off into a fairly wide ranging discussion about life and financial wellbeing in general. I really hope you’ve enjoyed it at home as much as we’ve enjoyed putting it together for you and that you’ll join us the next time for another one of our Financial well Being podcasts.

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